Linked by Eugenia Loli on Fri 7th Dec 2007 06:25 UTC, submitted by poundsmack
Qt Jambi ships as a single Java library, or JAR (Java Archive) file, plus a handful of tools, including an interface layout and design tool, and an Eclipse plug-in. Trolltech uses its vaunted Qt C++ library as the GUI engine and puts Java wrappers around it. This approach uses the JNI (Java Native Interface) to call the necessary functions from Java. More here.
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RE[9]: Unconvinced
by mikeurbandz on Fri 7th Dec 2007 22:01 UTC in reply to "RE[8]: Unconvinced"
mikeurbandz
Member since:
2007-10-29

> No you don't. ISVs of any size spend an awful lot
> on development tools and software.

Not nearly as much as they used to. Because today there are more options. Part of the reason so many small shops have been able to open up these days is cause of all the free software out there that helps them get started for very minimal cost.

> If you're hinting at shareware developers then go
> away. Seriously. You don't know what you're
> talking about.

I'm not hinting at shareware developers. That's not the kind of developer I am talking about.

And yes, I am familiar with SourceGear.

> It amounts to just about reusing your GTK
> theme, fonts and icons, and approximating the
> feel. That's it. Sadly, that isn't good enough
> for developing desktop applications.

And once again, you are plain wrong. It doesn't amount to that at all. Swing actually uses native peers for rendering these days. So it is doing more than just approximating the feel.

And you still haven't even looked at JDIC have you? Are you just ignoring JDIC now because you don't want to admit you were wrong? How many ways do I have to spell it out for you? JDIC does NOT simply use the GTK theme. It actually communicates to the underlying desktop environment. And this is why you can do things like write panel applets with it and such that you otherwise could not write using just plain Swing.

> That's it. Sadly, that isn't good enough
> for developing desktop applications.


Well, tell that to the vertical market application developers that have made Swing surpass even Microsoft's latest offerings as the most popular desktop application toolkit. Yes, it really is. You don't see that cause most of the desktop apps that are Java based are internal applications. But that's also what the majority of desktop applications are.

It's what powers many banking applications that tellers use. It's what powers the ticketing system at many airlines, etc.

> I laugh at people jumping up and down and telling
> me that I'm wrong.

Well, stop laughing then. Cause as I said, by shear number of desktop applications written, Swing is the most popular toolkit in the world. And the main reason I told you that you are wrong is cause you obviously don't understand Swing or Java. Since how you are claiming it does things, is not even remotely how it actually does do things these days. 5 years ago? Yes. Today? No. It's very different today.

I'm actually the one who should be laughing here. Cause you are proving you are one of those "Java sucks, even though I really don't know anything about it, I'm just repeating tired old arguments that I heard 5 years ago, or basing it on a bad experience I once had with Java" type of people.

Edited 2007-12-07 22:16

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[10]: Unconvinced
by segedunum on Fri 7th Dec 2007 22:50 in reply to "RE[9]: Unconvinced"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

And once again, you are plain wrong. It doesn't amount to that at all. Swing actually uses native peers for rendering these days. So it is doing more than just approximating the feel.

So does SWT, that people have felt compelled to use in favour of Swing's inadequacy over the years. So what? SWT is by no means perfect either.

And you still haven't even looked at JDIC have you? Are you just ignoring JDIC now because you don't want to admit you were wrong?

JDIC is not a part of Java, is by no means anywhere near complete, you have to deal with deployment and installation and is so woefully inadequate I have to stop myself laughing. It's absolutely fantastic that this is an improvement for Java developers, but let's not kid ourselves on the wider desktop development front. A Windows developer will laugh at you.

...Swing surpass even Microsoft's latest offerings as the most popular desktop application toolkit. Yes, it really is. You don't see that cause most of the desktop apps that are Java based are internal applications. But that's also what the majority of desktop applications are.

This is just exceptionally wishful thinking. Most Swing applications are the best part of ten years old, when everyone though Java was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Sadly, the reality then hit home, everyone realised they were deploying applications on Windows anyway and they went back to COM and VB Windows programming - or more likely, they started doing web applications. The vast majority of Java development these days takes place on the server in the form of J2EE, JSP and Beans.

Cause as I said, by shear number of desktop applications written, Swing is the most popular toolkit in the world.

Come on. You and I both know that this is akin to saying "The reason why we haven't seen any weapons of mass destructions is because they're so cunningly well hidden". You don't have to produce any evidence at all ;-).

Cause you are proving you are one of those "Java sucks, even though I really don't know anything about it, I'm just repeating tired old arguments that I heard 5 years ago, or basing it on a bad experience I once had with Java" type of people.

It's funny. People were saying exactly this sort of thing to me five years ago as well ;-).

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[11]: Unconvinced
by mikeurbandz on Fri 7th Dec 2007 23:07 in reply to "RE[10]: Unconvinced"
mikeurbandz Member since:
2007-10-29

> So does SWT, that people have felt compelled to use
> in favour of Swing's inadequacy over the years.

SWT actually uses native widgets. It doesn't just use native peers for rendering. And compared to Swing, SWT has a very small marketshare.

> So what? SWT is by no means perfect either.

SWT's main problem is that without addons, it is a very primitive toolkit. Their table widget is very weak and such.

> you have to deal with deployment and installation a
> and is so woefully inadequate I have to stop
> myself laughing.

As I said... how hard is it to bundle ONE .so file with your application? If you consider that a deployment / installation problem, then again, I have to ask what world you live in? That is literally all you have to do. Bundle the .so file with your application.

> Most Swing applications are the best part of
> ten years old

Wrong again. As I said, Swing experienced a 27% increase in usage between 2004 and 2005. That would seem to suggest most Swing apps are on the order of only about two to three years old. And there is a lot of new development happening in Swing as well.

Call it wishful thinking if you want. But I'm gonna take Evans Data's word over your word any day. By the way, I cited my claim. With a well respected company that specializes in reporting IT trends. Can you cite yours? All you have done is make off the cuff remarks. You haven't cited any of your claims with any reliable source.

> Come on. You and I both know that this is akin
> to saying "The reason why we haven't seen any
> eapons of mass destructions is because they're
> so cunningly well hidden". You don't have to
> produce any evidence at all ;-).

I did produce evidence. A compiled survey by Evans Data Corporation (which as I said, is a very well respected reporter of IT trends that does scientifically conducted surveys). I haven't seen you produce any evidence for even a single one of your claims yet though.

> It's funny. People were saying exactly this sort
> of thing to me five years ago as well ;-).

It seems you haven't learned anything in the last 5 years then.

Java has made enormous improvements in the last five years, and it is MORE Than competitive on the desktop today.

Reply Parent Score: 3