Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 13th Dec 2007 18:31 UTC, submitted by abdavidson
Legal "Opera Software filed a complaint with the European Commission yesterday which is aimed at giving consumers a genuine choice of Web browsers. The complaint describes how Microsoft is abusing its dominant position by tying its browser, Internet Explorer, to the Windows operating system and by hindering interoperability by not following accepted Web standards. Opera has requested the Commission to take the necessary actions to compel Microsoft to give consumers a real choice and to support open Web standards in Internet Explorer."
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RE[2]: Where Opera fail for me..
by Wondercool on Fri 14th Dec 2007 09:55 UTC in reply to "RE: Where Opera fail for me.."
Wondercool
Member since:
2005-07-08

Unfortunately, I have agree with J.R.
I have used Opera since 1998 but abandoned it in 2005 in favour of Firefox.

It's still a slick, fast browser but its feature set is not what really what I want. Opera keeps on improving their browser but I have to agree with not listening to their users.

Opera's forum has a feature request section.
For years and years, the number one request was an Adblocker, as easy to use as FF. First they couldn't implement it, as they used ads themselves, then it was too late, FF had overtaken them. But it's still not as easy as FF. IMO, very few of the requests on the forum are implemented, and FF made customisation so easy with the extensions.

When I look at my FF extensions, 4 are there to mimic Opera's user interface/features but 5 of them add totally unique functionality. Isn't it clear what Opera should do? Build an extension framework that makes it possible for others to build extensions. Instead we end up with "features" like Speeddial or a complete Mail program, which might not please all.

This complaint to Microsoft to me feels a bit like sour grapes. Opera made a lot of bad decisions in the last 5 years (like making the browser ad-based and then free too late, adding features that are ok but not essential) and were blown away by FF and IE.
Opera is now relegated to a market where it still shines: cross platform, low memory print and speed.

Filing a complaint LONG after the band has marched on feels exactly like how Opera's feature set has developed the last 5 years: too little too late

Reply Parent Score: 2

Joe User Member since:
2005-06-29

"For years and years, the number one request was an Adblocker, as easy to use as FF. First they couldn't implement it, as they used ads themselves, then it was too late, FF had overtaken them. But it's still not as easy as FF. IMO, very few of the requests on the forum are implemented, and FF made customisation so easy with the extensions".

So? For years, I've used a user style sheet that has blocked virtually all ads. Now Opera has an ad blocker out of the box, so it's easier than having to search the web, install and maintain across new releases an Adblock extension, don't you think? I don't remember having heard from the Opera devs that they couldn't implement an ad blocker. That doesn't make sense. If you look at all the features implemented in Opera, you can't say they don't implement features asked in the Opera forum. The average joe doesn't know about extension nor does he know where to search or what to search so extensions are only for a limited community of computer savvy users. When it works out of the box it's definitely easier. Have a look at this section: http://my.opera.com/community/forums/forum.dml?id=24 you'll see that most threads are replied by the Opera devs. Do you see that with the Microsoft or Mozilla corporations?

"When I look at my FF extensions, 4 are there to mimic Opera's user interface/features"

If you used Opera, you wouldn't have had to go through the hassle of downloading and maintaining extensions, it would have worked out of the box.

"but 5 of them add totally unique functionality"

I'd like to know what functionalities.

"Isn't it clear what Opera should do? Build an extension framework that makes it possible for others to build extensions".

I don't see why if you already have everything you need out of the box. Plus, extensions break across new versions, which is a pain. Some extensions aren't even maintain over time. You definitely don't want this sh#t in Opera.

"Instead we end up with "features" like Speeddial or a complete Mail program, which might not please all".

If you don't want SpeedDial, just click "Hide" in the lower-right corner. If you don't want to use the email client (which is my default email client BTW), just don't add any new email account, it'll never annoy, it's hidden. It doesn't use extra space either, Opera uses less space and RAM than Firefox even with all these "hidden" features. Imagine comparing Opera and Firefox with all extensions installed to mimic the Opera feature set in terms of used space and RAM usage. That would be terrible.

"Opera is now relegated to a market where it still shines: cross platform, low memory print and speed".

I'm surprised you found something good in Opera.

Reply Parent Score: -1

Wondercool Member since:
2005-07-08

"So? For years, I've used a user style sheet that has blocked virtually all ads. Now Opera has an ad blocker out of the box, so it's easier than having to search the web, install and maintain across new releases an Adblock extension, don't you think? I don't remember having heard from the Opera devs that they couldn't implement an ad blocker. That doesn't make sense. If you look at all the features implemented in Opera, you can't say they don't implement features asked in the Opera forum. The average joe doesn't know about extension nor does he know where to search or what to search so extensions are only for a limited community of computer savvy users. When it works out of the box it's definitely easier. Have a look at this section: http://my.opera.com/community/forums/forum.dml?id=24 you'll see that most threads are replied by the Opera devs. Do you see that with the Microsoft or Mozilla corporations?"

--The adblocker is too static and just not as good as FF. Yes you can edit some user sheet or so or download one, but it's a lot more difficult than loading an ad blocker from FF: select the adblock list you want (5 choices!) and never return.
About extensions: especially Opera users are tech savvy, so I don't see a problem. Users will use extensions.

"When I look at my FF extensions, 4 are there to mimic Opera's user interface/features"
"If you used Opera, you wouldn't have had to go through the hassle of downloading and maintaining extensions, it would have worked out of the box."

--Yes agreed, but thank god I can mimic it, actually with several competing extensions, it's easy.

"but 5 of them add totally unique functionality"
"I'd like to know what functionalities."

--Well:
Stumbleupon: social browsing
SwitchProxy: quick proxy changing
ShowIP: show websites IP
CustomizeGoogle: get the sharp edges of google
CookieSafe: you can do the same in Opera but not easily
IE Tab: for when a website is IE only
Ebay Buddy
Googlesync (Opera link?)
Foxy music


So what do i use to get Opera functionality??
All-in-one-Sidebar
Mousegestures
NoScript
Tab Mix Plus
CookieSafe


"I don't see why if you already have everything you need out of the box. Plus, extensions break across new versions, which is a pain. Some extensions aren't even maintain over time. You definitely don't want this sh#t in Opera."

--I really don't know what you are talking about, I NEVER had ANY problem with extensions except load time. It's a myth.

"Instead we end up with "features" like Speeddial or a complete Mail program, which might not please all".

If you don't want SpeedDial, just click "Hide" in the lower-right corner. If you don't want to use the email client (which is my default email client BTW), just don't add any new email account, it'll never annoy, it's hidden. It doesn't use extra space either, Opera uses less space and RAM than Firefox even with all these "hidden" features. Imagine comparing Opera and Firefox with all extensions installed to mimic the Opera feature set in terms of used space and RAM usage. That would be terrible.ec

--That's not the point. Opera spend a year to build a torrent client. Or a mail client. BUT WHY, there are so many very good programs like utorrent or Thunderbird, doing this for me. Opera could have used their time more wisely.

"Opera is now relegated to a market where it still shines: cross platform, low memory print and speed".
I'm surprised you found something good in Opera.

--It's not too late for Opera I think.

Reply Parent Score: 1

johnnysaucepn Member since:
2006-08-22

Just because they haven't implemented your pet feature doesn't mean they haven't implemented anybody's. Just because you don't use the mail client doesn't mean that nobody does. There are a large number of customers that have cried out for exactly those features.

Remember that every percentage point of market share translates into millions of users.

Reply Parent Score: 1