Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 7th Feb 2008 22:47 UTC, submitted by tyrione
Linux Linus Torvalds, leader of the cult of Linux, took a swipe at Apple's OS X and Microsoft Vista in the same breath at a conference in Australia last week. Speaking at the linux.conf.au conference in Melbourne, Australia, a few weeks ago, Torvalds called Leopard 'utter crap' and bashed the proprietary OS makers for being greedy, according to Australian reporter Nick Miller in the The Age. "I don't think they're equally flawed - I think Leopard is a much better system," Torvalds said. "(But) OS X in some ways is actually worse than Windows to program for. Their file system is complete and utter crap, which is scary." He also scoffed at his rivals' practice of revenue-through-renewal by launching upgrades that require new purchases. "An operating system should be completely invisible," Torvalds said. "To Microsoft and Apple (it is) a way to control the whole environment - to force people to upgrade their applications and hardware."
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Comment by moleskine
by moleskine on Thu 7th Feb 2008 22:59 UTC
moleskine
Member since:
2005-11-05

Linux is not a cult and whoever wrote that betrays immaturity. If you don't like what Linus Torvalds says, then don't read him, don't pay attention. Get out more, etc.

You may not agree with what LT says about this or anything else, but he's just as entitled to his views, however eccentric they may seem, as you are. He's also free to be wrong. On this occasion I think he is, but so what.

Besides, it seems to be he makes a rather good point in at least one regard: "An operating system should be completely invisible," Torvalds said. "To Microsoft and Apple (it is) a way to control the whole environment -- to force people to upgrade their applications and hardware." Read that sentence, then recall all the recent arguing bwetween Microsoft and the EU over opening up protocols, or fire up Windows and ask yourself why it doesn't read Linux file formats (without third-party plugins).

Edited 2008-02-07 23:00 UTC

RE: Comment by moleskine
by PlatformAgnostic on Fri 8th Feb 2008 07:08 in reply to "Comment by moleskine"
PlatformAgnostic Member since:
2006-01-02

Well, the fact that there are mechanisms to plug in the support should be good enough. If you make a format, you can certainly make the necessary plugin to make it work with Windows. It's a bit hard (but possible) with filesystems, but for codecs and image formats, the extensiblity story is pretty easy.

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RE[2]: Comment by moleskine
by l3v1 on Fri 8th Feb 2008 10:46 in reply to "RE: Comment by moleskine"
l3v1 Member since:
2005-07-06

If you make a format, you can certainly make the necessary plugin to make it work with Windows.


Thing is, for many people out there, the reverse would be more interesting, until Linux users are still "somewhat" less in numbers. The question never was whether plugins can be made or extensibility is hard or not. They [i.e. the Windows side] simply don't do it, because it's one of the ways to keep themselves afloat.

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RE: Comment by moleskine
by tomcat on Fri 8th Feb 2008 08:56 in reply to "Comment by moleskine"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

Linux is not a cult and whoever wrote that betrays immaturity.


I disagree. To some degree, every OS has its disciples (or "true believers", if you will), who treat a particular personality (Gates, Jobs, Torvalds, etc) as some kind of Messiah. That kind of slavish devotion is clearly on view, and it's disturbing, cult-like behavior, in my opinion.

From the Wiki:

"Cult typically refers to a cohesive social group devoted to beliefs or practices that the surrounding culture considers outside the mainstream, with a notably positive or negative popular perception. In common or populist usage, "cult" has a positive connotation for groups of art, music, writing, fiction, and fashion devotees, but a negative connotation for new religious, extreme political, questionable therapeutic, and pyramidal business groups. For this reason, most, if not all, non-fan groups that are called cults reject this label.

A group's populist cult status begins as rumors of its novel belief system, its great devotions, its idiosyncratic practices, its perceived harmful or beneficial effects on members, or its perceived opposition to the interests of mainstream cultures and governments. Cult rumors most often refer to artistic and fashion movements of passing interest, but persistent rumors may escalate popular concern about relatively small and recently founded religious movements, or non-religious groups, perceived to engage in excessive member control or exploitation."


If you don't like what Linus Torvalds says, then don't read him, don't pay attention. Get out more, etc. You may not agree with what LT says about this or anything else, but he's just as entitled to his views, however eccentric they may seem, as you are. He's also free to be wrong.


I actually would prefer to deal with Torvalds than Gates or Jobs, because at least Torvalds speaks his mind. You know where he's coming from; whereas, I suspect that Gates and Jobs would come at you from the shadows. So, Torvalds may not be right much, but he is fundamentally honest.

Edited 2008-02-08 08:57 UTC

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RE[2]: Comment by tomcat
by Moulinneuf on Fri 8th Feb 2008 20:22 in reply to "RE: Comment by moleskine"
Moulinneuf Member since:
2005-07-06

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_(disambiguation)

"Cult, a cohesive group of people **devoted to beliefs** **or practices** that the surrounding culture or society considers to be outside the mainstream."

Windows , Mac OS X and GNU/linux are mainstream OS ...

So not only are you not making sense , it's clear you and the author of this insulting garbage don't know the meaning of the word cult.

You need disciple to make a cult :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disciple

"A disciple is a follower and student of a mentor, teacher, or other wise figure. It can refer to:"

So all that you said here was just a justification for your baseless usual religious based themed insults and show a sign of clear deformation and of lack of education and of understanding on your part.

By your failed logic , incorect definition and missinterpretation , anyone who use an OS is a cultist ...

Seem to me that what you wrote here was just pure garbage.

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RE: Comment by moleskine
by B. Janssen on Fri 8th Feb 2008 10:00 in reply to "Comment by moleskine"
B. Janssen Member since:
2006-10-11

Besides, it seems to be he makes a rather good point in at least one regard: "An operating system should be completely invisible," Torvalds said. "To Microsoft and Apple (it is) a way to control the whole environment -- to force people to upgrade their applications and hardware." Read that sentence, then recall all the recent arguing bwetween Microsoft and the EU over opening up protocols, or fire up Windows and ask yourself why it doesn't read Linux file formats (without third-party plugins).


Agreed, but it makes me wonder why he basically showed a *shrug* response to Tivo's attempt to lock its devices.

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