Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 21st Apr 2008 19:00 UTC, submitted by Adam S
General Development Ars' Peter Bright wrote an article today entitled "From Win32 to Cocoa: a Windows user's conversion to Mac OS X", in which he explains why he believes "Windows is dying, Windows applications suck, and Microsoft is too blinkered to fix any of it". These are rather harsh words, but there is a definitive element of truth in it. The article is part one in a three-part series.
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RE[3]: Comment by TBPrince
by apoclypse on Tue 22nd Apr 2008 23:36 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by TBPrince"
apoclypse
Member since:
2007-02-17

That's not true. Microsoft is deprecating older APIs. It is just not removing them. Developers are encouraged to use newer APIs but Microsoft puts a great effort in supporting their products. That's the biggest part of its success. Of course, Apple (which holds a 2.something% marketshare) can just say "We don't care: rewrite your applications...". But if you were a business, you wouldn't feel very safe with tha policy unless you're hell of a brave business...


But that is the whole point of the article, that business are using old code, are not fully embracing the new in-order to keep things going. the issue with that is when things break, say on MS side who do they blame? Themselves who shoul have known better than to not keep their code up to dat eor MS? They will blame MS (as they have done already with Vista. Most issue with Vista stem from third party developers not updating their software for Vista).


And that's why Apple starts from 0 everytime. This way, they won't go anywhere in marketshare as they will always get users willing to user Apple's software and nothing else. Or wait 2 years while Adobe converts Photoshop to latest Apple's changes. No-one still have doubts that backward compatibility is the key for success. Really. No-one.


As it was pointed out already. Apple doesn't plan to make any changes to the api anytime soon. Especially now that they have the iPhone using the same api's. They want developer using their platform and so now that they have something stable and robust they cn go ahead and make less drastic changes in the api. This is still apple so you never know.


That's true but OS developers always use tricks and have advantages. Reason why Microsoft is still using Win32 is because, as all businesses, they slowly migrate their software to new platform instead of re-writing all from scratch. Plus, I honestly believe that they might use some hooks or undocumented functionalities which aren't available on .NET. But almost ANY Microsoft product requires .NET today.


Again that is the point of the article. teh authors complaint is that apps on Ms are not consistent. This is not form a a single source, there is no consistent guideline or even roadmap for how an application should look or behave on windows. There just isn't. Like I said the issue is because MS themselves don;t have a clear guideline for how their apps should look or act. That is the first thing that Ms should focus on.


This is somewhat normal. I honestly don't expect Apple (nor Microsoft) to convert their applications to newer APIs all of sudden. But still, you cannot say Microsoft HASN'T a newer API because that's not true. .NET is huge, consistent, elegant and embraces basically 95% of Windows API. If you're developing NEW software based on Win32 today, you're putting yourself in troubles. That's not a MS problem as they did anything they could to provide you tools not to be forced to do that but they cannot stop you from using Win32 if you feel you should.


Just like apple can't force developers to not use carbon. Agreed. the issue is that those developers will run into issues down the line and MS will coddle them instead of doing the right thing for themselves as a company and dropping unneeded and wasted resources on something that any good company shoudl be doing inthe first place.


Well, DirectX was for sure reason for success of Windows platform as gaming platform. Of course, compared to modern APIs (like newer DirectX) it looks acient and bad but it was the foundation of PCs as gaming machines, given the better upgradbility of PCs themselves. If PC gaming market is the hugest gaming market available today, that was because of Windows and unique PC features when compared to consoles. You can't just ignore that.


Directx was successful because frankly everything else sucked. Opengl was way too advanced and limited in scope for any hardware to really take advantage of. In-order for games to directly access the hardware at the time, you either had to use opengl (which most hardware didn't support natively only in software. Not to mention that MS's implementation purposely sucked) or 3dfx's driver or Dos. Ms was trying to drive developers towards directx for the sake of their platforms stability (a LOT of issues with win95 had to do with legacy code and hardware support, again it bit hem in the butt. In this case it was necessary to gain a userbase).


That's true but only because Microsoft, until .NET, didn't provide an unified way of accessing services. This is partly related to acient problems which have been solved with .NET. Now, if we compare Windows platform NOW, we have to compare to newer APIs, not older ones which are mantained for backward compatibility.


This I agree with you on. the author should have been more objective. However its hard to compare the two api's because while cocoa is extensively used by developers, .net is not heavily used yet because of the old api still works and is there. I perosnally think this is a bad thing but some people see it as good.


Unfortunately, for years Apple's platform was a really good platform but only in specific areas. We all know Apples were great in GFX, in desktop publishing and so on but the very fact they weren't good as general purpose machines, made them irrelevant to the market and general users.


That is an issue that Apple needs to face. Though in today's world thing are a little different, you now have cross platform productivity tools, mail clients 9though theirs is pretty good) and browsers (though theirs is pretty good as well).

We know (and Apples knows that too) what users want: a machine which you could use to use Excel and Word onto, which you could use for e-mails and browsing, which you can let your kid play games onto and maybe connect to your home theater system to watch DVDs. Other niche markets exists but they are infacts niche markets.


And other than graphic professionals, that is exactly the audience that are drawn to macs now. Students, home users, people who want to listen to music watch dvd's. All of these are things that Apple does well and has made in-roads and in some cases created their own markets.


However, I believe Jobs still didn't catch the wave. To be popular, you should flood market with applications, pay developers to produce tons of applications in various fields, pay developers to produce games for your platform, flood the market yourself with free apps. Still Jobs tries to lock users in by trying to sell them services they won't buy, killing competition from ISV and missing important markets. That's not the way he will make OS X platform more popular. Time will tell.


Sure if you are about quantity, go right ahead and flood the market with crapware. That is no apple's way and the fact that their sales are growing their brand strong (stronger than MS)in the public eyes speaks volumes that what they are doing is not only working but is slowly but surely gaining them customers.

Sure. And that's why Microsoft has .NET Compact Framework which is almost 1-1 (well, maybe 0.80-1) compatible to standard .NET framework.


Great. How many people will use it I wonder with the iPhone's market share increasing and already huge. I see more people learning Cocoa.

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