Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 5th May 2008 17:12 UTC, submitted by Dale Smoker
Sun Solaris, OpenSolaris OpenSolaris 2008.5, the new distribution based on the OpenSolaris operating system, has been released into the wild. This release follows the conventions set by many of the popular Linux distributions, such as being based on a single live CD with installer, but also adds a load of OpenSolaris-specific features such as ZFS, DTrace, Containers, and a new package management system, IPS. OpenSolaris 2008.5 is the fruit of Project Indiana.
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Different Boot Environments
by Kebabbert on Tue 6th May 2008 10:27 UTC
Kebabbert
Member since:
2007-07-27

looks like a killer. You can do a snapshot, patch the system and when you boot - you can choose which snapshot to boot from GRUB. If the system behaves strange, just rollback in an instant. All snapshots are available via GRUB.

Imagine doing that in a production system. If something goes wrong, just rollback. If you get virus, just rollback. Version control, like CVS or SVN, for the entire system. Wow! Only ZFS allows this feature. And someone said that ZFS is just like another file system, albeit a little better? He seems to haven't understood anything. If he can't imagine the benefits of this, then his loss. Right?

Edited 2008-05-06 10:28 UTC

Reply Score: 3

segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

Imagine doing that in a production system. If something goes wrong, just rollback.

Christ. This is why you have test environments (not that you can't do this on other systems), regardless of what you can and cannot snapshot on a production system...... I really worry about some people, and some of the people on the OpenSolaris lists are really worrying.

Yes, it's really lovely that ZFS is detecting some potential corruption that you didn't have when you had a working system before. It's also really lovely that ZFS is silently handling it. You still have to deal with this. The question is, why on Earth do you have that problem now where you didn't before, and why are people seeing the same thing with the same disk controller? Good luck with that one.

If you get virus, just rollback.

Roll back to what, exactly?! Do you know how far the virus went back? Have you just taken a snapshot of the infected system? How do you know it hasn't affected ZFS itself? Do you know what state the snapshot is in?

No. The only way you'll be able to make this work is through an adequate back up system (which snapshots simply cannot replace) with adequate checksumming on a per file and directory basis so you know exactly what has changed and when as a form of IDS.

Even then, it's possible to do much the same thing with LVM snapshots or Volume Shadow Copy.

Version control, like CVS or SVN, for the entire system. Wow! Only ZFS allows this feature.

Errr, no, because CVS, SVN or a backup system provide checksumming and diff changes on a per file and directory basis. Unless you make a snapshot for each and every change you don't have that with a snapshot system. If you do, you'll have to allocate a spectacular amount of space to account for divergences.

It's no replacement for a backup system.

Reply Parent Score: 3

Matt Giacomini Member since:
2005-07-06

You're an excitable one.

Edited 2008-05-06 17:39 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

Arun Member since:
2005-07-07


Christ. This is why you have test environments (not that you can't do this on other systems), regardless of what you can and cannot snapshot on a production system...... I really worry about some people, and some of the people on the OpenSolaris lists are really worrying.


Wow more FUD with no basic understanding.

Yes, it's really lovely that ZFS is detecting some potential corruption that you didn't have when you had a working system before. It's also really lovely that ZFS is silently handling it. You still have to deal with this. The question is, why on Earth do you have that problem now where you didn't before, and why are people seeing the same thing with the same disk controller? Good luck with that one.


Err. Because before they had nothing to detect the silent bit rot and now they do! Duh!.


Roll back to what, exactly?!


How about the first snapshot of a freshly installed system.

ZFS send can send a snapshot to a file and zfs recieve can restore it. You can have this snapshot on a completely different drive. Reinstall and restore from that snapshot. Much faster than setting everything up again. So you can send any number or snapshots to a different disk and maintain known good copies that are free from virii. If the snapshots in the system are not working out restore from the external disk. If you want this disk can be powered of when not in use.


Do you know how far the virus went back? Have you just taken a snapshot of the infected system? How do you know it hasn't affected ZFS itself? Do you know what state the snapshot is in?


None of that invalidates the benefits of ZFS snapshots and would hold true for even NetAPP filers. But the bottom line is such a system was not available for laptops or desktops in such a simple and extensive way.

No. The only way you'll be able to make this work is through an adequate back up system (which snapshots simply cannot replace) with adequate checksumming on a per file and directory basis so you know exactly what has changed and when as a form of IDS.

Even then, it's possible to do much the same thing with LVM snapshots or Volume Shadow Copy.


But ZFS makes that so easy. It tracks the changes when you snapshot, can compress the snapshots and even export it to a file. Let's see you do such a backup that with LVM and ext3. You'll need external tools and more work.

Volume shadow copy doesn't have the ability to export a snapshot or compress a snapshot.


Errr, no, because CVS, SVN or a backup system provide checksumming and diff changes on a per file and directory basis. Unless you make a snapshot for each and every change you don't have that with a snapshot system. If you do, you'll have to allocate a spectacular amount of space to account for divergences.

It's no replacement for a backup system.


It's not a replacement for a backup system but it enhances a backup system substantially. Your argument is it doesn't replace a back system so it is no good is pretty dubious and ignorant.

Edited 2008-05-06 18:19 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2