Linked by David Adams on Wed 24th Sep 2008 22:44 UTC, submitted by snydeq
Talk, Rumors, X Versus Y Linux Foundation Executive Director Jim Zemlin has said it is time for Solaris to simply move out of the way and yield the future to Linux. 'The future is Linux and Microsoft Windows. It is not Unix or Solaris,' he claims, contending that Sun's strength in long-lifecycle apps is giving way to Linux, as evidenced by the rise of Web apps, where Linux holds a decided advantage, Zemlin claims. With capabilities such as ZFS and DTrace, Sun is trying to compete based on minor features, he says. 'That's literally like noticing the view from a third-story building as it burns to the ground.'
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what about joyrent?
by lord-storm on Thu 25th Sep 2008 06:55 UTC
lord-storm
Member since:
2005-07-12

"You can't really talk to any Web-based application company these days that's not using Linux,"

What about joyrent? Built on opensolris. Personaly Linux will slowly lose market share in file server market. Look at the high density file server SUN are pushing out. Oh change one line in passwd file and boom have unix users authenticating with windows clients via ZFS. Why do you think samba is complaining and throwing toys out of the cot.

ZFS tells no lies I discovered that my machine was throwing errors out in ram since its not ECC unless i lowered the speed to improve compatibility in Dual channel mode.

And what about Fire engine? dladm what a joy...

Reply Score: 1

RE: what about joyrent?
by Windows Sucks on Thu 25th Sep 2008 07:26 in reply to "what about joyrent?"
Windows Sucks Member since:
2005-11-10

"You can't really talk to any Web-based application company these days that's not using Linux,"

What about joyrent? Built on opensolris. Personaly Linux will slowly lose market share in file server market. Look at the high density file server SUN are pushing out. Oh change one line in passwd file and boom have unix users authenticating with windows clients via ZFS. Why do you think samba is complaining and throwing toys out of the cot.

ZFS tells no lies I discovered that my machine was throwing errors out in ram since its not ECC unless i lowered the speed to improve compatibility in Dual channel mode.

And what about Fire engine? dladm what a joy...


Ummmmmm, last time I looked Red Hat was MAKING money and Sun was trying to stave off bankruptcy!

Sun is only making money by cutting staff. That is not making money!

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: what about joyrent?
by javiercero1 on Thu 25th Sep 2008 08:47 in reply to "RE: what about joyrent?"
javiercero1 Member since:
2005-11-10

Hum, obviously you do not know what bankruptcy is... SUN's revenue is flat, that is indeed a problem. But they have plenty of cash, thus they are pretty f*cking far from "bankrupcy." Imagine that you did not get a raise this year, and you had to tone down your vacation a bit... does that mean that you are bankrupt now? Not even close...

SUN is a $14 billion company, and red hat is what 300 or 400 million tops?

In fact SUN had a larger revenue that all the linux companies (and no, IBM nor Oracle are not Linux-only companies) combined. So it takes some serious amount of gall for a linux guy to say that Solaris is dead...

Until Linux has a file system comparable to ZFS, a facility even remotely close to DTrace, proper kernel threads, stable interfaces, the pervasive hot plugging capacities of Solaris, etc... then we will talk.

I am a linux user, but sometimes I wish I could have some of my tools in Solaris so I did not have to deal with the head aches that Linux brings. Between the multiple distros, the flat out hacks, and some of the mindblowing inconsistencies interface-wise when it comes to programming anything low level (anyone writing a driver or anything close to the kernel knows what I am talking about)... I am about done with Linux. Life is too short, and honestly the more I have been developing in Solaris the more I like it.

Give me 3rd party apps, CUDA, and the intel compiler suite for solaris and will be a happy man.

And yes, I just spent 4 days to implement a hack that allows me to get a specific trace of performance counters for a benchmark under linux (for a paper). The same process took literally minutes with dtrace. So it was quite the eye opener, never mind the fact that a apt-get update did bring a new library version that somehow borked the hack I had got working at some point...

So yeah, maybe it is the sheer lack of sleep but if Mr. Zemlin would STFU and go back to hack to get things a bit more consistent, that would be great.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: what about joyrent?
by segedunum on Thu 25th Sep 2008 18:17 in reply to "what about joyrent?"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

What about joyrent? Built on opensolris. Personaly Linux will slowly lose market share in file server market.

They're one drop amongst an ocean of web companies. Having personal experience of Joyent I can say that they're not quite as good as they could be. Their shared BSD virtual servers weren't terribly pleasant to work with, and their move to Solaris hasn't exactly been straightforward.

As a Rails hoster they're fighting a bit of a losing battle. Fact is, the vast majority of Rails core developers code and deploy to Linux systems. Capistrano, amongst other things, basically assumes you will deploy to an average Linux distribution. If you don't at least use a GNU toolchain then you are nobody. Most just end up deserting that kind of set up and go for a dedicated server they have complete control over, and it's more often than not a VPS running Linux on Xen or KVM now where the cost is quite attractive. The ZFS and zones stuff behind the scenes, while cool and useful at times, are not the priorities people put first.

Joyent have just got really excited about all the cool stuff without thinking about the fundamentals, and basically, their use of BSD shared servers that weren't up to the job and the mass rush to Solaris screamed "We will use anything but Linux". They were bitten by a nasty ZFS bug few months back:

http://discuss.joyent.com/viewtopic.php?id=19430

ZFS was, and still is really, not ready and certainly not ready to be used as a cool new thing. While I won't pretend that there haven't been some annoying problems with things like Xen set ups, these have amounted to some reboots of guests.

Oh change one line in passwd file and boom have unix users authenticating with windows clients via ZFS. Why do you think samba is complaining and throwing toys out of the cot.

I don't think you know what Samba actually does.

ZFS tells no lies I discovered that my machine was throwing errors out in ram since its not ECC unless i lowered the speed to improve compatibility in Dual channel mode.

Nice. Is that a problem with your hardware or a problem with the system you're running on? ;-)

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: what about joyrent?
by lord-storm on Thu 25th Sep 2008 21:18 in reply to "RE: what about joyrent?"
lord-storm Member since:
2005-07-12


ZFS was, and still is really, not ready and certainly not ready to be used as a cool new thing. While I won't pretend that there haven't been some annoying problems with things like Xen set ups, these have amounted to some reboots of guests.

Im not supprised that joyrent got bitten by a ZFS bug but they happen in all distributions remember the LG Burner bug that kills your burner as well as the new one that kills your intel network card? ZFS is a work in progress indeed file systems do not mature very quickly. I have a stable solaris system and it only took me 3 Years to get it. Sure you may think 3 years is a long time to wait for ZFS and other features to mature to a point where I am happy? Isnt those features worth it.

Solaris still isnt a desktop distro and will not be a contender for at least another 5-10 years. Look at how long it took linux to get from a similar state to where it is today.


I don't think you know what Samba actually does.

I have been integrating linux systems for the last 5 years. Pdbedit etc sometimes samba is a pain to use. The only really easy distro to deploy samba on is SUSE in my opinion not to start a flame war. Samba has great developers but SUN have one thing 100k Developers on its side as well as Microsoft which IS A GOOD THING. Integration with Microsoft painlessly is important.

Nice. Is that a problem with your hardware or a problem with the system you're running on? ;-)

At one stage it was Solaris 10 but that was the buggy IDE controller driver that didn't like my Segate ES Drive. I know for a fact that the two RANK's of ram are slightly under specification of DDR2 667 CPUZ Proven(Transend RAM) Maybe the drivers for the memory could be improved who knows im not a developer.

Reply Parent Score: 1