Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 6th Oct 2008 10:37 UTC, submitted by John Mills
Mono Project The Mono project has released Mono 2.0. As most of you will know, Mono is an open-source implementation of Microsoft's .NET framework for Linux, Mac OS X, Windows, and other operating systems. The 2.0 release comes packed with new features, the main ones being the compiler upgrade to C# 3.0 with support for LINQ, as well as the inclusion of ADO.NET 2.0, ASP.NET 2.0 and System.Windows.Forms 2.0. The release notes detail all the changes and new features.
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RE[5]: Amazing
by Thom_Holwerda on Mon 6th Oct 2008 14:00 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Amazing"
Thom_Holwerda
Member since:
2005-06-29

This is, after all, the entire bluster behind Ballmer's "undisclosed liability" nonsense.


If so, then why the hell does it matter if people use Mono, which is fully open source?

Look, big software companies like Microsoft, Apple, Novell, IBM, Sun, etc. will never start a patent infringement lawsuit on their own. In fact, they are always the target of patent lawsuits, but they never sue themselves.

The reason is simple. All of these big companies infringe on one anothers' patents, and they know it. Red Hat infringes on Microsoft patents, Microsoft infringes on Apple patents, Apple infringes on IBM's patents, and so on, and so forth.

It's like a house of cards. As soon as you take one card out, the entire house collapses. It would set s precedent, triggering a chain reaction of various big software companies litigating against one another over patent infringement. That, they really don't want. The reason Microsoft and similar companies don't sue individuals and smaller companies is that they KNOW full well that they themselves infringe on countless patents of other competitors.

The simple and obvious conclusion is that there is absolutely ZERO need to be afraid of patent infringement lawsuits from these big companies, and people saying that users and distributors of Mono are in danger of being sued by MS are plain old trolls.

Edited 2008-10-06 14:02 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[6]: Amazing
by lemur2 on Mon 6th Oct 2008 14:10 in reply to "RE[5]: Amazing"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

If so, then why the hell does it matter if people use Mono, which is fully open source?


With patents, the fact that mono is not a copyright violation of .NET is not the issue. The issue is that Windows,forms, ADO.NET and ASP.NET, which Mono 2.0 includes, are patent encumbered technologies.

You can violate a patent even if Mono is not a copy of .NET code.

Hence, you need a license, from Microsoft, to run anything which implements their patented technologies, including Windows.forms, ADO.NET and ASP.NET, even if Microsoft did not write the code.

AFAIK, Microsoft has given out such licenses only to Novell SLED, Xandros and Linspire.

Look, big software companies like Microsoft, Apple, Novell, IBM, Sun, etc. will never start a patent infringement lawsuit on their own. In fact, they are always the target of patent lawsuits, but they never sue themselves.


Agreed.

The entire point seems to be that Microsoft wish to continue making patent threat noises against Linux users, without ever actually suing, and trying to get Microsoft dependencies built in to the only distributions which they do not so threaten.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[7]: Amazing
by jstedfast on Mon 6th Oct 2008 14:16 in reply to "RE[6]: Amazing"
jstedfast Member since:
2007-06-21

With patents, the fact that mono is not a copyright violation of .NET is not the issue. The issue is that Windows,forms, ADO.NET and ASP.NET, which Mono 2.0 includes, are patent encumbered technologies.


Most distributions do not, by default, install Windows.Forms, ADO.NET, or ASP.NET portions of Mono (nor do they need to).

Mono is perfectly usable without those components unless you are specifically trying to run a Windows.Forms application or an ASP.NET hosted website.

You do not need them to use Banshee, F-Spot, or Tomboy as has already been explained dozens of times in this thread alone.

Yet somehow you keep ignoring that fact.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[7]: Amazing
by segedunum on Mon 6th Oct 2008 19:32 in reply to "RE[6]: Amazing"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

With patents, the fact that mono is not a copyright violation of .NET is not the issue. The issue is that Windows,forms, ADO.NET and ASP.NET, which Mono 2.0 includes, are patent encumbered technologies.

If you read the very limited documentation on the ECMA web site regarding governance of these issues, you will actually find that it is worse than that. ADO.Net and ASP.Net are merely namespaces no matter what anyone says, and it's not where the meat is. Without the reasonable and non-discriminatory terms that ECMA membership requires you might well require an explicit license from Microsoft to use .Net ECMA standards, and those RAND terms are simply not guaranteed to be in place forever. That's the situation, and it governs .Net technology such as the CLR and Common Language specification.

There was much bluster from Miguel and a few others on a mailing list a while ago that there was a letter from Microsoft and HP guaranteeing RAND terms to be irrevocable. No such letter has ever materialised, and until that happens questions remain.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[7]: Amazing
by Finalzone on Tue 7th Oct 2008 08:29 in reply to "RE[6]: Amazing"
Finalzone Member since:
2005-07-06


AFAIK, Microsoft has given out such licenses only to Novell SLED, Xandros and Linspire.

Linspire is absorbed by Xandros.

Reply Parent Score: 2