Linked by Rahul on Sun 2nd Nov 2008 19:24 UTC
Linux Greg Kroah-Hartman is a longtime developer of the Linux kernel, known for his work maintaining USB drivers. O'Reilly Media recently interviewed Greg about his claim that the Linux kernel now supports more devices than any other operating system ever has, as well as why binary-only drivers are illegal, and how the kernel development process works. "I went and asked every single hardware manufacturer, the big guys that ship the boxes, Dell, IBM, HP--what do you ship that isn't supported by Linux? They came back with nothing. Everything is supported by Linux. If you have a device that isn't supported by Linux that's being shipped today, let me know.". If you would like to take up Greg KH on his claim, his email address is greg AT kroah.com
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Uhm
by Thom_Holwerda on Sun 2nd Nov 2008 21:05 UTC
Thom_Holwerda
Member since:
2005-06-29

Dear Greg,

It's not about how many devices you support. It's about how well you support them, and how easy it is to get that support working.

Thom

RE: Uhm
by Rahul on Sun 2nd Nov 2008 21:13 in reply to "Uhm"
Rahul Member since:
2005-07-06

Well, I would say, how many devices you support, does matter to a good extend but as the article notes, for a large majority, the drivers do work very well.

For gpsca webcam driver, I wrote to Greg KH and Hans from Fedora started working on it as well, so not only is the driver in the latest upstream kernel, in Fedora 10, we also include a libv4l library that supports all the webcams using their own custom formats as well.

http://lwn.net/Articles/287910/
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/BetterWebcamSupport

Still doesn't take away some of the pain points of proprietary drivers (Nvidia is the last major offender there) and proprietary firmware ( Broadcom is a pain because they are not even redistributable) and many others but overall the situation is getting very much better. It is interesting to see the industry turn around.

Reply Parent Bookmark Score: 7

RE[2]: Uhm
by dagw on Mon 3rd Nov 2008 21:02 in reply to "RE: Uhm"
dagw Member since:
2005-07-06

Well, I would say, how many devices you support, does matter to a good extend but as the article notes, for a large majority, the drivers do work very well.


There's support and there's support. My laptop for example is technically fully supported, with open source drivers even, for all its features. Basically it is possible to get everything to work, that however doesn't mean it's easy to get working.

To get my fully supported laptop fully working I had to edit several files in /etc, download and compile the latest version of some driver that hadn't made it into my distros repository, cut and paste several scripts from several different web sites, change some of those script to fit my configuration and then edit a couple of more files, based on information from yet another third party site. Once that was done everything worked, more or less.

Compare this to Windows. I install Windows, go to the laptop manufacturers website, download the relevant packages for my laptop, double click those packages, hit Continue a couple of times, reboot and everything works.

Reply Parent Bookmark Score: 2

v RE: Uhm
by ari-free on Sun 2nd Nov 2008 21:23 in reply to "Uhm"
RE[2]: Uhm
by Rahul on Sun 2nd Nov 2008 21:35 in reply to "RE: Uhm"
Rahul Member since:
2005-07-06

Sure, many vendors do exact that. Some vendors like Intel even get their drivers merged before they even release their hardware. What doesn't work is proprietary drivers. Whether the vendors make them or not is mostly irrelevant. Just because people know to make hardware, doesn't make them experts in being driver developers. Often, the opposite.

Reply Parent Bookmark Score: 6

RE[2]: Uhm
by Ford Prefect on Sun 2nd Nov 2008 21:40 in reply to "RE: Uhm"
Ford Prefect Member since:
2006-01-16

What do you mean by that? A large portion of the drivers included in Linux is developed by the respective hardware manufacturers, most of them are even maintained directly by them, too.

Perhaps you just lack the knowledge about the Linux driver situation. Why don't you read the Article / listen to the interview then?

Reply Parent Bookmark Score: 7

RE[2]: Uhm
by segedunum on Sun 2nd Nov 2008 21:42 in reply to "RE: Uhm"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

The problem with that (I read that as allow separate, binary manufacturer drivers) is that it starts to destroy the integrity of the system, lots of unexplainable problems start to occur, and quite frankly, the vast majority of manufacturer written drivers are crap and there is no guarantee whatsoever how long they will keep those drivers available. Once a driver is in the Linux kernel it stays there until pretty much no one uses it any more.

Edited 2008-11-02 21:42 UTC

Reply Parent Bookmark Score: 2

RE: Uhm
by sbergman27 on Sun 2nd Nov 2008 21:42 in reply to "Uhm"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

It's about how well you support them, and how easy it is to get that support working.

Actually, it's about how many currently relevant devices you don't support, don't support well, or make the user jump through hoops to make work. (Inspiring speeches about "Freedom" notwithstanding.)

Ten "attaboys" is worth one "Oh, shit!". People these days expect their devices to just work without a lot of excuses.

Edited 2008-11-02 21:45 UTC

Reply Parent Bookmark Score: 6

RE[2]: Uhm
by Soulbender on Mon 3rd Nov 2008 09:54 in reply to "RE: Uhm"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

People these days expect their devices to just work without a lot of excuses.


Wow, they sure are going to be disapointed with Windows then ;)

Reply Parent Bookmark Score: 2

RE: Uhm
by nick on Mon 3rd Nov 2008 05:22 in reply to "Uhm"
nick Member since:
2006-04-17

Dear Greg,

It's not about how many devices you support. It's about how well you support them, and how easy it is to get that support working.

Thom


What are you trying to imply by that?

It might be claimed that Windows better supports devices for PC class hardware. But on the other hand, I have seen a report showing a large number of NT kernel crashes attributed to drivers. So without some reasonable evidence, I don't think such a thing can just be asserted as true.

As for how easy to get that support working, do you mean from a user's perspective, or driver / architecture port writer? If it is from a user's perspective, then again, I would like to see some quantifiable evidence. I know that it is easier for me to get Linux drivers working than Windows, because I'm more comfortable in that environment.

From the other perspective.. again, evidence.

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