Linked by Amjith Ramanujam on Tue 23rd Dec 2008 00:30 UTC
A next-generation package manager called Nix provides a simple distribution-independent method for deploying a binary or source package on different flavours of Linux, including Ubuntu, Debian, SUSE, Fedora, and Red Hat. Even better, Nix does not interfere with existing package managers. Unlike existing package managers, Nix allows different versions of software to live side by side, and permits sane rollbacks of software upgrades.
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Member since:2005-12-18
Well.... I don't think that it's just a matter of "solving dependency hell". I don't think it's a problem of the package manager "per se", but how reliable are RPM based distributions when you are switching from one iteration of the distribution to the next? At least, openSuSE (from what I've heard) hasn't reached the point where you can just "dist-upgrade" just like debian based distros can. How about RHEL4 to 5, or CentOS, Mandriva and so on? Has anybody experienced problems doing that? Has anybody tried?
Member since:2005-07-24
but how reliable are RPM based distributions when you are switching from one iteration of the distribution to the next...
At least, openSuSE (from what I've heard) hasn't reached the point where you can just "dist-upgrade" just like debian based distros can.
At least, openSuSE (from what I've heard) hasn't reached the point where you can just "dist-upgrade" just like debian based distros can.
*sigh*
So there are still Debian folks living in the 90's.
My (rather extensive) experience is with the Red Hat family. I have "side-graded" quite a number of servers from Fedora to CentOS with relatively little problem. You have to wait for the proper time window in which the CentOS release is later than the Fedora release you are upgrading it from. For straight CentOS upgrades? RHEL upgrades? Fedora upgrades? Generally no problem. Now, when you get to the destination... you have all the new versions of the software. If your firefox plugins are incompatible, then I think I can get you a good deal on Kleenex tissues.
I wince about the same amount when I start an apt upgrade as when I start a yum upgrade. If you are still buying into the concept of only Debian based distros having a smooth upgrade path then you really need to join us in the 21st century. Because even back in the 20th, I was beginning to wonder about that mindset.
Edited 2008-12-23 03:26 UTC
Member since:2005-07-13
At least, openSuSE (from what I've heard) hasn't reached the point where you can just "dist-upgrade" just like debian based distros can.
*heavy sigh*
I upgraded openSUSE 11.0 to 11.1 by changing my repos to point at 11.1, and then running Yast to upgrade all packages.
RPM-based distros will break on distro upgrades for exactly the same reason that Debian-based ones will: when you're using non-standard or third-party repos that aren't in synch.
The openSUSE build service, which houses a multitude of contributory repos, automatically builds packages against multiple versions (and distros) and updates packages when applicable dependencies change in those targets. The popular third party repos follow factory development and generally have repos available for the new version at release. This means that as long as you point to the new sources properly, then there should be little issue with updating.
As an example, I had unsupported KDE 4.2 packages from the build-service installed in 11.0. Upon upgrading, it updated the the appropriate unsupported KDE 4.2 packages for 11.1 along with the core 11.1 upgrade.
Dependency-hell disappeared a decade ago. If it still occurs, it's an issue with the packager, not the package management.
Member since:
2005-07-24
Me and my clients, too. I also use a Debian based distro on my desktop, and don't have problems there, either. Yet there always seems to be someone flitting about wanting to save us from "dependency hell". It used to be the Debian crowd. But they finally figured out that other distros had package management. Now it seems to be random projects from every which direction coming at us with a mission to unify everything. If in doubt, you can recognize them by their claims that (1) You have a problem, (2) They can solve it, (3) Their product can mess around with your system without interfering with your native package manager, and (4) Your girlfriend will be amazed, and the guys in the locker room will be impressed.
I'll stick with Yum and Apt, thanks.
Edited 2008-12-23 01:18 UTC