Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 22nd Jan 2009 15:37 UTC
Microsoft After much, much, much speculation, Microsoft let the cat out of the bag today: due to weak results, Microsoft is going to cut 5000 jobs. Those 5000 jobs will disappear over the course of 18 months, with 1400 jobs being cut immediately. Quarterly results, as well as the cost-cutting measures, were made known in a press release today.
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Reality show your wrong and lying
by Moulinneuf on Fri 23rd Jan 2009 01:05 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: It is a shame"
Moulinneuf
Member since:
2005-07-06

1. Union would have tried to keep the 5000 jobs , by pressuring Microsoft , asking the entire group to walk and ask for lower pay for those worker instead of firing.

2. That's a usual bulshit and lies , slacker are easily fired in Unions. It's in bad company that slacker are hard to fire , also most worker have no idea what other worker work result are , the big slacker are usually thingking they are the best workers.

3. Actually in reality union workers have more benefits and more pay over time compared to non unionized worker , the only competent and ambitious that make more usually change side to be their own boss or change job to a real paying profession. one union group , people like you tend to forget , are asssociation and profession like doctors , plumber and other associated worker professions.

4. The real culprit to blame for large job loss is globalization , not union per say , the boss have gone global and union have stayed local. when they can replace you by 100 people that cost them half your salary over all and it cost them less to ship the product half the planet away then do it locally , they do the maths and cut jobs to increae profit , usually loosing in the long term because you can't replace quality worker with experience over night unless you move them around.

The US auto company #1 problem is they are trying to sale 70's and 80's style car , at twice the price of their competitor in the name of extreme profit when their counter part are offering car of the end of the 90's for hlaf their price , The management are to blame for the huge excess of inventory , that cost hundred if not thousand of millions per day and excess of sales dealership , that are costing them more then the actual unionized worker on the line ( do a research on port storage vs buying a lot inside a small city ).

The funny thing is other worker cost more then US workers , if you add all their benefits , but they also get retrained on the job , and work longuer hours , full meal compensatiuon and live in country where free healthcare are the norm , a lot of them also get residence on the comapny dime and extra activity too , so they are not gouged by inssurance and failing medical system and greedy landlord in almost empty city that have US citizen pay three time as much as everyone else.

US auto company have been around longuer then their counter parts , other companies around the world also used to close more often due to past US higgher quality and service in vehicules , because after all they are automakers , not money makers. Beside most US auto makers don't have that much unions this days as they let in a lot of worldwide subcontractor on many parts , assembled in the US is not the same thing as entirely built in the US.

- Tesla ( working electric car ) #1 problem is production , both in number and cost and training and financing , the worker could always setup a production shop and offer there service , the Union could lend them the starting money.

- Microsoft as a tendancy to hire the best , in case you don't know Apple and GNU/Linux company could use them if they show their worth.

Most company fail due to management and shareholders lack of oversight over management and there undue importance on them , when your company use to make 50 million a year in profit and now you have a ceo who make 45 million based on past result , that no longuer apply in the last year year and sales are in decline to low 10 of million , the problem is the CEO not the worker who do the job.

- Statistic show non unionized company close million more time then unionized one.

- Microsoft history show it as created a lot of millionaire and even a couple billionaire employee , this days they make record profits but they don't create as much rich people ...

One can even draw a direct parralel betwen the reason why both US based company in two different industry are laying off people :

Most people globally are starting to buy other cheaper , better , faster , safer prodcuts from their competition.

Reply Parent Score: 3

modmans2ndcoming Member since:
2005-11-09

There is nothing wrong with Unions protecting workers from unfairness. Unions do however get in the way of business realities and they also protect the useless POS workers who should get fired. If I was a union member and my co-worker was not coming to work and when at work, not working.. I would not support the Union's efforts to keep him... It gives me more work and less pay for it.

Reply Parent Score: 2

Moulinneuf Member since:
2005-07-06

There is nothing wrong with Unions protecting workers from unfairness


What's wrong is your lack of knowledge about union. But your knowledge of the lies put against them.

Unions do however get in the way of business realities


Not in reality. There are more non unionized company that close , everyday , then unionized ones. Unionized company closing are a rarity , in fact. But they got well funded PR machine and extremely well funded lobby working against them , who tell lies.

They also protect the useless POS workers who should get fired.


No they don't , In reality unions push for POS worker to get fired , often more then not , the POS are relatives with someone backing them in management or they are specialist that would cost more to replace as those POS accept to work at 25%-50% what there replacement would cost , again it's management who refuse to fire them.

Also as I pointed out most people who call other's POS have no idea of what the other productivity or speciality to be. Beside humans do get sick , we are not machines. It usually cost 15k to retrain someone new and take 3-6 month to have them work at full capacity and most of the time the replacement is even worst then the so called POS they replaced.

It gives me more work and less pay for it.


Since when are union in charge of hiring , schedules , work load and pay ?

1. If someone call in sick it's your managers job to replace him. With a temp or by hiring part time or full time.

2. The schedules for worker are made by management.

3. Since when union tell you what to do and do more ? If you accept to replace another worker and do is job without compensation it was your decision.

4. Union are not the one who decide what management or the company pay it's employee's , for x job.

Company always close and people loose there jobs because the management decided to do so.

Reply Parent Score: 2

spiderman Member since:
2008-10-23

Please please do not take offense, but I believe you do not get unions, or the way the economy works in general.
Those you call POS (you mean slackers right?) are not eating into your pay at all. Actually maybe they eat $1 out of your salary. Those who really eat on your salaries are the share holders. They are doing NOTHING, NOTHING AT ALL, they just happen to be rich. And they don't take $1 from your salary, they take 2 thirds of it. When you work, your create production which translates into money. That money you create is then shared with your share holders. They take 2/3 of it, they reinvest 1/6 of it and they give you back 1/6 of the money YOU created. You share that money with the POS and and maybe you only have 0.99/6 of your salary, but don't make a mistake, the POS is not the one eating your lunch!

Edited 2009-01-24 13:37 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1