Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 18th May 2009 19:06 UTC
We all know them. We all hate them. They are generally overdone, completely biased, or so vague they border on the edge of pointlessness (or toppled over said edge). Yes, I'm talking about those "Is Linux ready for the desktop" articles. Still, this one is different.
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Member since:2008-11-18
Linux is terrible managing sound. Any audio experte can tell you that. The problem is Linux is not a preemtive kernel by default, so real time audio relies on fast hardware an sometimes luck.
It was a problem back in 2002. With kernel 2.4. Fixed since a long time now.
It was a problem back in 2002. With kernel 2.4. Fixed since a long time now.
No, it is not completely fixed. Not all distributions compile the thing for preemptive kernel, because it is optional.
I repeat the text from "Understanding the Linux Kernel":
When compiled with the "Preemptible Kernel" option, Linux 2.6 can arbitrarily interleave execution flows while they are in privileged mode. Besides Linux 2.6, a few other conventional, general-purpose Unix systems, such as Solaris and Mach 3.0 , are fully preemptive kernels. SVR4.2/MP introduces some fixed preemption points as a method to get limited preemption capability.
Not all distributions compile with preemptive kernel flag.
Can you read: preemptive kernel OPTION.
Can't you read, or something?
Of course I can read... Can you read whole sentences, not just the first three words?
Do you understand the problem with Linux? Not all distributions require to have preemptive kernel.
So you have gone from "Linux doesn't have preemption" to "Linux has only had it for 6 years".
I never said that... My first post I wrote:
....The problem is Linux is not a preemtive kernel by default, so real time audio relies on fast hardware an sometimes luck.
Do you speak English? Do you understand what preemptive kernel BY DEFAULT means?
It means it is optional, it is not required, you can by pass it.
You just have to read the whole sentence. Not just the first part and start bashing people.
Six years is a long, long time in the arena of rapidly-improving Linux.
Long enough so that audio latency issues that were once a problem have long ago been solved. As I said, I gave you three links to mature low-latency audio layers in current use on Linux.
You are seriously out of date with your attempted criticism.
Yeah, and you think that Audio apps are going to star appearing the same time the kernel is fixed... Magically, because thousands of developers were just waiting for the kernel to be fixed... Especially a "fixed" that is not fundamental for Linux to work, because it is optional.
To get critical Application, take years. Recently some products for audio have appeared on Linux, while better products have been on Windows and Mac for more than a decade.
If you do not believe me, ask Adobe how many years is projected to take Photoshop to be 64 bits on Mac OS X. Or how many years Microsoft needed to take Office from PowerPC to Intel and still no VB support? And they have money and the developers to do it?
Developing software is a very complex and difficult task. Applications do not appear like magic.
Member since:2007-02-17
No, it is not completely fixed. Not all distributions compile the thing for preemptive kernel, because it is optional.
I repeat the text from "Understanding the Linux Kernel":
When compiled with the "Preemptible Kernel" option, Linux 2.6 can arbitrarily interleave execution flows while they are in privileged mode. Besides Linux 2.6, a few other conventional, general-purpose Unix systems, such as Solaris and Mach 3.0 , are fully preemptive kernels. SVR4.2/MP introduces some fixed preemption points as a method to get limited preemption capability.
Not all distributions compile with preemptive kernel flag.
Can you read: preemptive kernel OPTION.
Of course I can read... Can you read whole sentences, not just the first three words?
Do you understand the problem with Linux? Not all distributions require to have preemptive kernel.
I repeat the text from "Understanding the Linux Kernel":
When compiled with the "Preemptible Kernel" option, Linux 2.6 can arbitrarily interleave execution flows while they are in privileged mode. Besides Linux 2.6, a few other conventional, general-purpose Unix systems, such as Solaris and Mach 3.0 , are fully preemptive kernels. SVR4.2/MP introduces some fixed preemption points as a method to get limited preemption capability.
Not all distributions compile with preemptive kernel flag.
Can you read: preemptive kernel OPTION.
Of course I can read... Can you read whole sentences, not just the first three words?
Do you understand the problem with Linux? Not all distributions require to have preemptive kernel.
Name one that doesn't.
....The problem is Linux is not a preemtive kernel by default, so real time audio relies on fast hardware an sometimes luck.
Name one that does.
It means it is optional, it is not required, you can by pass it.
You just have to read the whole sentence. Not just the first part and start bashing people.
You just have to read the whole sentence. Not just the first part and start bashing people.
Name a desktop distribution that ships with a non-premeptive kernel.
Long enough so that audio latency issues that were once a problem have long ago been solved. As I said, I gave you three links to mature low-latency audio layers in current use on Linux.
You are seriously out of date with your attempted criticism.
You are seriously out of date with your attempted criticism.
The aforementioned low-latency audio layers are the default on Linux desktop distributions. Ergo, the default (for Linux desktops) is to have ... a pre-emptive kernel.
Yeah, and you think that Audio apps are going to star appearing the same time the kernel is fixed... Magically, because thousands of developers were just waiting for the kernel to be fixed... Especially a "fixed" that is not fundamental for Linux to work, because it is optional.
To get critical Application, take years. Recently some products for audio have appeared on Linux, while better products have been on Windows and Mac for more than a decade.
To get critical Application, take years. Recently some products for audio have appeared on Linux, while better products have been on Windows and Mac for more than a decade.
Pfft.
http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/online/news/fast_forward_vlc_1_0_0_...
Best media player on any desktop platform, bar none.
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/05/05/the-mobile-music-netbook-l...
"The elements of Linux-based music making have reached a nice convergence with the release of Ubuntu 9.04 – the combination of a polished, mature Linux distribution with a newly-updated real-time kernel for low-latency audio is looking especially potent."
Cannot be beaten for portability, functionality and value-for-money-price.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amarok_(software)
Best music collection software on any desktop platform, bar none.
Developing software is a very complex and difficult task. Applications do not appear like magic.
Agreed. It is a good job that you are at least six years behind the times about desktop Linux, then, isn't it?
Edited 2009-05-19 05:50 UTC
Member since:2007-02-17
Yeah, and you think that Audio apps are going to star appearing the same time the kernel is fixed... Magically, because thousands of developers were just waiting for the kernel to be fixed... Especially a "fixed" that is not fundamental for Linux to work, because it is optional.
To get critical Application, take years. Recently some products for audio have appeared on Linux, while better products have been on Windows and Mac for more than a decade.
If you do not believe me, ask Adobe how many years is projected to take Photoshop to be 64 bits on Mac OS X. Or how many years Microsoft needed to take Office from PowerPC to Intel and still no VB support? And they have money and the developers to do it?
Developing software is a very complex and difficult task. Applications do not appear like magic.
To get critical Application, take years. Recently some products for audio have appeared on Linux, while better products have been on Windows and Mac for more than a decade.
If you do not believe me, ask Adobe how many years is projected to take Photoshop to be 64 bits on Mac OS X. Or how many years Microsoft needed to take Office from PowerPC to Intel and still no VB support? And they have money and the developers to do it?
Developing software is a very complex and difficult task. Applications do not appear like magic.
Magic: ====>
http://www.renoise.com/
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/02/20/energyxt-25-is-here-is-awe...
http://www.creativepost.co.uk/
http://www.rosegardenmusic.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ardour_(audio_processor)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure_Data
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SuperCollider
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Csound
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ChucK
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_audio_software
<===== Enjoy.
Member since:2006-09-07
Do you speak English? Do you understand what preemptive kernel BY DEFAULT means?
It means it is optional, it is not required, you can by pass it.
So your argument is flawed. With linux you can have kernel the way you want with Windows you are stuck with one kernel which can't be good for every use. Do you agree ?
"DEFAULT with most distributions" ... but not all, right ? How about http://www.jacklab.org ?
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Member since:
2007-02-17
It was a problem back in 2002. With kernel 2.4. Fixed since a long time now.
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/5600
Yes I do. Premption is required for "hard real time". "Hard real time" is possible for Linux kernels, and there is some discussion if "real time" should become the default.
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9566944929.html
Can't do that without a premptible kernel.
Both preemption and real time extensions for the kernel are of assistance in producing low latency non-stuttering audio.
I gave you three links to low-latency audio layers in modern Linux distributions, which utilise these features of the kernel.
Can't you read, or something?
Linux 2.6 has preemptive kernel posibility since 2.6... Windows NT was a preemptive kernel... How many years before? 15? Now, do you really expect that in two-three years that Linux has had the possibility of recompiling the kernel as a preemptive kernel, which is OPTIONAL on most distros to magically catch up and get the same applications for audio that has been on Mac OS X or Windows for years? Get real. "
So you have gone from "Linux doesn't have preemption" to "Linux has only had it for 6 years".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_kernel#Versions
Six years is a long, long time in the arena of rapidly-improving Linux.
Long enough so that audio latency issues that were once a problem have long ago been solved. As I said, I gave you three links to mature low-latency audio layers in current use on Linux.
You are seriously out of date with your attempted criticism.
Edited 2009-05-19 03:00 UTC