Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 18th May 2009 19:06 UTC
We all know them. We all hate them. They are generally overdone, completely biased, or so vague they border on the edge of pointlessness (or toppled over said edge). Yes, I'm talking about those "Is Linux ready for the desktop" articles. Still, this one is different.
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RE: Linux is for uber-geeks or uber-basic users.
by lemur2 on Tue 19th May 2009 03:19
in reply to "Linux is for uber-geeks or uber-basic users."
Member since:2007-02-17
That's why Linux is not ready for the desktop AT ALL! Linux caters to the extremely advanced user who's geeky enough to get under the hood and tweak the heck out of the OS via command line, or the extremely basic user who's just happy with web browsing, emailing, chatting and doing word processing. All other computer users, and we are the majority, are better served by Windows or OS X. Here are just a few examples of why I consider Linux a big flop and wouldn't recommend it to anyone I know personally.
This ought to be good.
1. Program Installation - Dependency Hell has taken a new meaning.
Only true if the new meaning of "dependency hell" in Linux is "what's that?".
So you want to try out program X and you go to Synaptic, YaST, or whatever package manager your distro uses. You choose to install Program X and you find out it requires dependencies A, B, C, D and E. You proceed with the install and once done, you try program X. You don't like it so you go back to uninstall program X. Program X is removed, but dependencies A, B, C, D and E, which you definitely didn't need before you installed program X are left behind. Well, basic users will probably not even realize that extra junk was left on their systems so they won't care. Uber-geeky users know their way around the Linux filesystem enough to search for package manager logs and remove files and configuration file entries manually. Everybody else in-between is left with the bad taste of a crappy uninstall routine.
It is obviously a loooooooong time since you have actually used a Linux package manager. That rant above is simply not true.
Package managers these days are literally: "browse or search for what you want, select it, click apply". Done.
2. Hardware support sucks, maybe less than before but still sucks nonetheless.
Linux supports more hardware than any available version of any other OS. Period. Supported out of the box, and supported better ... no "dropped support for legacy cards".
3. Linux development is a huge MESS!
It is a huge mess of people ... estimated 1.5 million involved.
You have to put up with getting editors, compilers, debuggers, the whole nine set up.
It is a good job then that package managers are so easy and so capable, then, isn't it. These days, most package managers support "groups" or "collections" of applications. This operation then is actually just a matter of selecting the appropriate group of applications in the package manager, in this case the "development" group, and click apply. One-click install.
4. Multimedia setup is a nightmare.
Most distributions will give you a link to a repository. The one for Ubuntu is here:
www.medibuntu.org
Add it to the list of repositories in use, problem (which was created by US legal system, not by Linux) is easily solved.
Unless you get a distro that doesn't care about patents and copyrights, getting your system to play back MP3's, AVI, MOV and WMV files can be a total nightmare, and don't get me started on DVD playback.
All solved by adding the one extra repository. No drama.
There's nothing out there as usable as iMovie, Windows Movie Maker, Sony Vega's Studio, etc. Kino and Avidemux are as pathetic as that Windows Live Movie Maker Beta or even worse.
You didn't look too hard.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kdenlive
Nobody cares about Theora - it is not playable on almost any consumer equipment out there.
Theora is not Linux.
So you see, until Linux gets to cater the majority of computer users, not just those in both ends of the computer-literacy scale, Linux is NOT ready for the desktop. Period.
No-one expects YOU to use if you don't want to ... use whatever you want too ... but that is no reason for you to spread disinformation about Linux to try to put others off.
Edited 2009-05-19 03:23 UTC
RE: Linux is for uber-geeks or uber-basic users.
by DavidSan on Tue 19th May 2009 04:34
in reply to "Linux is for uber-geeks or uber-basic users."
Member since:2008-11-18
That's why Linux is not ready for the desktop AT ALL! Linux caters to the extremely advanced user who's geeky enough to get under the hood and tweak the heck out of the OS via command line, or the extremely basic user who's just happy with web browsing, emailing, chatting and doing word processing.
All other computer users, and we are the majority, are better served by Windows or OS X. Here are just a few examples of why I consider Linux a big flop and wouldn't recommend it to anyone I know personally.
1. Program Installation - Dependency Hell has taken a new meaning. So you want to try out program X and you go to Synaptic, YaST, or whatever package manager your distro uses. You choose to install Program X and you find out it requires dependencies A, B, C, D and E. You proceed with the install and once done, you try program X. You don't like it so you go back to uninstall program X. Program X is removed, but dependencies A, B, C, D and E, which you definitely didn't need before you installed program X are left behind. Well, basic users will probably not even realize that extra junk was left on their systems so they won't care. Uber-geeky users know their way around the Linux filesystem enough to search for package manager logs and remove files and configuration file entries manually. Everybody else in-between is left with the bad taste of a crappy uninstall routine.
2. Hardware support sucks, maybe less than before but still sucks nonetheless. You go ahead and install Linux (or run it from a live disc), and you see you have sound, video and networking. Cool! That's until you realize the crappy support from those drivers. Remember those out-of-box Windows 98 drivers that were so crappy that sent you running to the manufacturer's website so you could download and install the REAL driver? Well, that's the kind of support you get when you want to use your video, sound, webcam, TV tuners, scanner, printers, etc with Linux... if they work at all. Again, the basic user will be fine with this support. The uber-geek will probably recompile his drivers to get them optimized for their kernel of choice. Everybody else, we're just screwed.
3. Linux development is a huge MESS! You have to put up with getting editors, compilers, debuggers, the whole nine set up. And documentation? Forget about it! Linux development tools are all over the place and are the biggest proof of how disorganized Linux is. And if you are new to programming and want to learn? Seriously, do yourself a favor: get Windows, get the free VisualStudio Express and learn to program in C# or VB because the whole mess that is Linux development really doesn't lend itself for a productive and enjoyable learning experience.
4. Multimedia setup is a nightmare. Unless you get a distro that doesn't care about patents and copyrights, getting your system to play back MP3's, AVI, MOV and WMV files can be a total nightmare, and don't get me started on DVD playback. Also, I thought setting up Windows Media Center was quite a hassle, until I tried to set up MythTV and TVTime. I don't think even their developers can understand these program's configuration UI's! And what about video editing. There's nothing out there as usable as iMovie, Windows Movie Maker, Sony Vega's Studio, etc. Kino and Avidemux are as pathetic as that Windows Live Movie Maker Beta or even worse. Nobody cares about Theora - it is not playable on almost any consumer equipment out there.
So you see, until Linux gets to cater the majority of computer users, not just those in both ends of the computer-literacy scale, Linux is NOT ready for the desktop. Period.
All other computer users, and we are the majority, are better served by Windows or OS X. Here are just a few examples of why I consider Linux a big flop and wouldn't recommend it to anyone I know personally.
1. Program Installation - Dependency Hell has taken a new meaning. So you want to try out program X and you go to Synaptic, YaST, or whatever package manager your distro uses. You choose to install Program X and you find out it requires dependencies A, B, C, D and E. You proceed with the install and once done, you try program X. You don't like it so you go back to uninstall program X. Program X is removed, but dependencies A, B, C, D and E, which you definitely didn't need before you installed program X are left behind. Well, basic users will probably not even realize that extra junk was left on their systems so they won't care. Uber-geeky users know their way around the Linux filesystem enough to search for package manager logs and remove files and configuration file entries manually. Everybody else in-between is left with the bad taste of a crappy uninstall routine.
2. Hardware support sucks, maybe less than before but still sucks nonetheless. You go ahead and install Linux (or run it from a live disc), and you see you have sound, video and networking. Cool! That's until you realize the crappy support from those drivers. Remember those out-of-box Windows 98 drivers that were so crappy that sent you running to the manufacturer's website so you could download and install the REAL driver? Well, that's the kind of support you get when you want to use your video, sound, webcam, TV tuners, scanner, printers, etc with Linux... if they work at all. Again, the basic user will be fine with this support. The uber-geek will probably recompile his drivers to get them optimized for their kernel of choice. Everybody else, we're just screwed.
3. Linux development is a huge MESS! You have to put up with getting editors, compilers, debuggers, the whole nine set up. And documentation? Forget about it! Linux development tools are all over the place and are the biggest proof of how disorganized Linux is. And if you are new to programming and want to learn? Seriously, do yourself a favor: get Windows, get the free VisualStudio Express and learn to program in C# or VB because the whole mess that is Linux development really doesn't lend itself for a productive and enjoyable learning experience.
4. Multimedia setup is a nightmare. Unless you get a distro that doesn't care about patents and copyrights, getting your system to play back MP3's, AVI, MOV and WMV files can be a total nightmare, and don't get me started on DVD playback. Also, I thought setting up Windows Media Center was quite a hassle, until I tried to set up MythTV and TVTime. I don't think even their developers can understand these program's configuration UI's! And what about video editing. There's nothing out there as usable as iMovie, Windows Movie Maker, Sony Vega's Studio, etc. Kino and Avidemux are as pathetic as that Windows Live Movie Maker Beta or even worse. Nobody cares about Theora - it is not playable on almost any consumer equipment out there.
So you see, until Linux gets to cater the majority of computer users, not just those in both ends of the computer-literacy scale, Linux is NOT ready for the desktop. Period.
Very good. That's exactly how Windows and OS X users see the whole thing. After years and years promoting Linux to almost everybody, I realized the whole thing is a mess.
An you have not talked about the Fonts in Gnome.. Do you want RGB, BGR, antialiased (heavy, soft medium), hinting (soft, medium, easy)... What combination? Try to explain that to a normal user... Not even die hard Linux users know sometimes. And it is on the user interface.
People just tell you... I just want it to look nice like in Windows or Mac. And after, not all applications show the same fonts, sometimes they look bigger, or smaller, or just don't care about the preferences pane.
No matter how hard I tried, desktop users say Mac or Win.
RE[2]: Linux is for uber-geeks or uber-basic users.
by FooBarWidget on Wed 20th May 2009 09:49
in reply to "RE: Linux is for uber-geeks or uber-basic users."
Member since:2005-11-11
An you have not talked about the Fonts in Gnome.. Do you want RGB, BGR, antialiased (heavy, soft medium), hinting (soft, medium, easy)... What combination? Try to explain that to a normal user... Not even die hard Linux users know sometimes. And it is on the user interface.
Eh? The choice of RGB/BGR/etc and the hinting levels are only shown in the 'Advanced' dialog of the font customization panel. The main panel just gives you a simple choice of "not antialiased", "smooth antialiasing", "best contrast antialiasing" and "LCD antialising" (not sure I got the exact wording right, I'm not on GNOME right now). Or are you suggesting removing the 'Advanced' button altogether and piss off the people who do want to customize that stuff?
Your argument sounds a lot like "Windows isn't ready for the desktop because I launched regedit.exe and everything is confusing!"
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Member since:
2008-08-27
That's why Linux is not ready for the desktop AT ALL! Linux caters to the extremely advanced user who's geeky enough to get under the hood and tweak the heck out of the OS via command line, or the extremely basic user who's just happy with web browsing, emailing, chatting and doing word processing.
All other computer users, and we are the majority, are better served by Windows or OS X. Here are just a few examples of why I consider Linux a big flop and wouldn't recommend it to anyone I know personally.
1. Program Installation - Dependency Hell has taken a new meaning. So you want to try out program X and you go to Synaptic, YaST, or whatever package manager your distro uses. You choose to install Program X and you find out it requires dependencies A, B, C, D and E. You proceed with the install and once done, you try program X. You don't like it so you go back to uninstall program X. Program X is removed, but dependencies A, B, C, D and E, which you definitely didn't need before you installed program X are left behind. Well, basic users will probably not even realize that extra junk was left on their systems so they won't care. Uber-geeky users know their way around the Linux filesystem enough to search for package manager logs and remove files and configuration file entries manually. Everybody else in-between is left with the bad taste of a crappy uninstall routine.
2. Hardware support sucks, maybe less than before but still sucks nonetheless. You go ahead and install Linux (or run it from a live disc), and you see you have sound, video and networking. Cool! That's until you realize the crappy support from those drivers. Remember those out-of-box Windows 98 drivers that were so crappy that sent you running to the manufacturer's website so you could download and install the REAL driver? Well, that's the kind of support you get when you want to use your video, sound, webcam, TV tuners, scanner, printers, etc with Linux... if they work at all. Again, the basic user will be fine with this support. The uber-geek will probably recompile his drivers to get them optimized for their kernel of choice. Everybody else, we're just screwed.
3. Linux development is a huge MESS! You have to put up with getting editors, compilers, debuggers, the whole nine set up. And documentation? Forget about it! Linux development tools are all over the place and are the biggest proof of how disorganized Linux is. And if you are new to programming and want to learn? Seriously, do yourself a favor: get Windows, get the free VisualStudio Express and learn to program in C# or VB because the whole mess that is Linux development really doesn't lend itself for a productive and enjoyable learning experience.
4. Multimedia setup is a nightmare. Unless you get a distro that doesn't care about patents and copyrights, getting your system to play back MP3's, AVI, MOV and WMV files can be a total nightmare, and don't get me started on DVD playback. Also, I thought setting up Windows Media Center was quite a hassle, until I tried to set up MythTV and TVTime. I don't think even their developers can understand these program's configuration UI's! And what about video editing. There's nothing out there as usable as iMovie, Windows Movie Maker, Sony Vega's Studio, etc. Kino and Avidemux are as pathetic as that Windows Live Movie Maker Beta or even worse. Nobody cares about Theora - it is not playable on almost any consumer equipment out there.
So you see, until Linux gets to cater the majority of computer users, not just those in both ends of the computer-literacy scale, Linux is NOT ready for the desktop. Period.