Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 20th Jul 2009 19:16 UTC
Sun Solaris, OpenSolaris The Linux desktop has come a long way. It's a fully usable, stable, and secure operating system that can be used quite easily by the masses. Not too long ago, Sun figured they could do the same by starting Project Indiana, which is supposed to deliver a complete distribution of OpenSolaris in a manner similar to GNU/Linux. After using the latest version for a while, I'm wondering: why?
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RE[4]: personal impressions...
by kawazu on Tue 21st Jul 2009 20:00 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: personal impressions..."
kawazu
Member since:
2005-12-11

Hi there;

well... you don't really have to kind of "evangelize" me regarding OpenSolaris... I spent most of my university life working with old Sun / Solaris workstations and for sure are affectionate towards Solaris and in some ways enthusiastic about the possibilities OpenSolaris does offer. And I have to admit that I am using Sun stuff (NetBeans, Glassfish, not talking about Java of course... :>) wherever possible. Personally, as well, I think many of the features provided by OpenSolaris generally are good, but then again, talking about an open source system, are they really tied to OpenSolaris? ZFS so far also does exist as a (fuse) port for GNU/Linux users. Maybe (not sure, though) DTrace also might be ported to GNU/Linux or other Unixoid systems - I'm not sure.

The only thing I know is, off-hand, that Sun in many respects failed about OpenSolaris. Why on earth that strange "Java Desktop System" (basically a modified GNU/Linux) a couple of years ago? Why does it take so long to make OpenSolaris stable? Why is there no "real" developer community around OpenSolaris so far, comparing to GNU/Linux or the *BSDs? Why, talking about DTrace in example, doesn't OpenSolaris come with a straightforward, powerful GUI tooling for these features to allow (desktop/developer) users to easily get started with these tools? Why, at the moment, is the set of hardware supported by OpenSolaris (being a company-backed operating system) still felt to be years behind what the Linux kernel provides here? Why, to get back to this example, does a system like Debian cleanly and quickly install packages within a couple of seconds or minutes where OpenSolaris IPS still takes rather long to install obscurely named packages to strange places like /opt/csw/ or /usr/gnu? I think that, given some more love years ago, OpenSolaris by now could be predominant. The way it is, right now it has to compete with GNU/Linux on the operating system, not even talking about Windows or MacOS X (which, as I disturbedly had to realize, seems to be the OS of choice amongst most of my Sun contacts... so much for that).

Asides this, just to add another example: When JavaFX was released, I just was into testing OpenSolaris, and I felt enthusiastic about JavaFX as well, just to figure out that - what? A technology released by Sun, in its initial release not supporting the operating system also released by Sun? That's simply dumb, from a marketing point of view, in my opinion...


So, overally: I hope the Sun/Oracle merger won't affect OpenSolaris all too much, or maybe a community will be capable of dropping in keeping OpenSolaris running even without Sun being there backing the project anymore. I still see work to be done, and I won't hesitate also testing out future releases. Let's see where it's heading...

Reply Parent Score: 1

Kebabbert Member since:
2007-07-27

I am not really trying to evangelize you. I am merely asking a question; have you ever seen the DTrace stuff being done earlier on any OS? No you havent. And wouldnt you find it useful, working as a developer?

Therefore I am asking. Because I dont really understand when you say that "OpenSolaris has nothing that Linux hasnt and OpenSolaris needs to distinguish it from Linux". I really dont understand your line of thought? ZFS is unique. DTrace is unique, just as you have read it can do unique things no other common OS has ever been able to do before in history. No OS. And you call DTrace "no distinguishing feature"? You are joking. You have never seen anything like DTrace before in your entire life. Never.

And for instance, when you say that SUN should target JavaFX for OpenSolaris first and SUN is being "dumb" not to do so. Why in earth should SUN target JavaFX for OpenSolaris? The majority of the Java developers work on Windows. In MY point of view, SUN would be dumb if they didnt target the greatest Java market: Windows. First, pick low hanging fruit, and then at last, release JavaFX for smaller OSes. That is sound business strategy and not dumb?

You know, I really dont understand how you think. But that is ok. If you believe ZFS and DTrace are not totally unique and revolutinizing, then it is good for you.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: personal impressions...
by kawazu on Wed 22nd Jul 2009 06:38 in reply to "RE[5]: personal impressions..."
kawazu Member since:
2005-12-11

Hi there... ;)

I am not really trying to evangelize you. I am merely asking a question; have you ever seen the DTrace stuff being done earlier on any OS? No you havent. And wouldnt you find it useful, working as a developer?


Talking about DTrace, I find this quite useful actually for doing server-sided diagnostics. On the desktop, doing Java development, so far I simply haven't encountered situations in which using the debugging facilities provided by Eclipse or, even better, by NetBeans did leave me wanting/needing more. So I agree DTrace is cool, but so far I don't need it on my desktop. If this is subject to change, my operating system requirements will, too. ;)


...
I really dont understand your line of thought? ZFS is unique. DTrace is unique, just as you have read it can do unique things no other common OS has ever been able to do before in history.


ZFS indeed is unique and maybe _the_ killer feature I see in OpenSolaris (after all, that's why people usually are to point this out as the first argument "pro OpenSolaris"... ;) ). Yes, I want ZFS on a file server providing hundreds of gigabytes, or even terabytes, of disk space to a bunch of local users, and doing so without requiring me to worry about things like "how to share this mess?", "how to do RAID et al?" or "what to do if one drive fails?". However I still don't see the benefit ZFS provides on a mobile device with a single S-ATA disk unlikely to be really expanded as 99% of the features ZFS offers simply are lost / not required here. On a notebook which usually is short on resources no matter how new it is, I don't want to waste resources on features I don't need. ;)


No OS. And you call DTrace "no distinguishing feature"? You are joking. You have never seen anything like DTrace before in your entire life. Never.


Please, feel free to completely read my posts. ;) I know these features are unique. But they aren't from a desktop user point of view who just needs some UI to start NetBeans and maybe a web browser and a mail client. From that point of view, OpenSolaris is "just another GNOME based Unix distribution" (and, given I decide to use XFCE which I prefer for various reasons, I don't even have nautilus and Time Slider anymore, so it's even more vanilla).




And for instance, when you say that SUN should target JavaFX for OpenSolaris first and SUN is being "dumb" not to do so. Why in earth should SUN target JavaFX for OpenSolaris? The majority of the Java developers work on Windows.


This, overally, gives a Java developer one less reason to even look into OpenSolaris.


In MY point of view, SUN would be dumb if they didnt target the greatest Java market: Windows. First, pick low hanging fruit, and then at last, release JavaFX for smaller OSes. That is sound business strategy and not dumb?



Yes it does. Because it is narrow-minded and blind. Let me give you an example: I was doing quite some effort trying to convince my fellow developers that the Sun tool chain (including OpenSolaris) is good if you're a Java developer. Some eventually installed OpenSolaris to their workstations and also liked what they saw (indeed, running on a workstation which is not a notebook, OpenSolaris is a pretty nice citizen once all hardware is supported). Then, JavaFX finally appears, with the Java developers wanting to have a look. And now, all of a sudden, I am being asked why on earth JavaFX (Sun) atop Java(Sun) is released for virtually anything except for OpenSolaris(Sun)? To all those who, following my enthusiasm and inspiration, decided to use OpenSolaris, this decision now has ended up leaving them incapable of playing with the latest and greatest in Java RIA development just because of this decision. This is dumb, dumb, dumb! If trying to market JavaFX as a "developer tool" _and_ OpenSolaris as a "developer operating system", OpenSolaris just _has_ to be supported from the very first moment. Of course, one can focus on doing marketing for JavaFX, completely ignoring all the other products the same company is doing marketing for at the same time. But that doesn't sound very reasonable. And, overally, I wonder whether this kind of (IMHO) short-sighted marketing strategy might have to do with Suns recent, say, "business difficulties"...




You know, I really dont understand how you think.


Because you just picked some of my statements and commented them without bothering reading all the text I wrote. This is good for you, of course, but of course this way you aren't likely to understand. ;)

So, again, a simple question. Take some up-to-date GNU/Linux distribution and a current OpenSolaris installment, and just compare the desktop UI and the applications bundled with them (i.o.w. no command-line tools like dtrace and no system infrastructure like ZFS). What, exclusively talking about the _desktop_ sphere, does OpenSolaris offer that the GNU/Linux distribution doesn't?

Reply Parent Score: 2