Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 9th Sep 2009 22:29 UTC, submitted by lemur2
Linux Open source 3D graphics drivers for ATI R600 garphics cards has been submitted to the kernel-next tree for possible inclusion in the Linux kernel 2.6.32. "David Airlie has pushed a horde of new code into his drm-next Git tree, which is what will get pulled into the Linux 2.6.32 kernel once the merge window is open. Most prominently, this new DRM code brings support for kernel mode-setting with R600 class hardware as well as 3D support."
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RE: Things are Still a Mess
by lemur2 on Thu 10th Sep 2009 02:49 UTC in reply to "Things are Still a Mess"
lemur2
Member since:
2007-02-17

Until ATI/AMD commits to going down this development route for all of their chipsets then we're still going to get a disconnected mess with fglrx - which simply shouldn't exist in my view. The trade secret NDA card has been played for years as an excuse as to why a driver isn't open sourced and in the kernel, it has shown to be false and AMD, and especially Intel, are in the process of showing that it is bogus for graphics. We always seem to be saying "Oh, it's just around the corner" with graphics support on Linux - permanently. We've still got lots of drivers doing their own thing and even reimplementing a ton of the Xorg stack (yes, you nvidia) and still a load of differences between what a device supports and what a driver can actually do with it. If only graphics drivers were cajoled into being open sourced and using a shared codebase like those in the kernel.


I'm sorry ... what exactly will we need fglrx for?

For the next kernel, 2.6.32 or later, only nvidia cards will still require a binary blob driver for 3D hardware accelerated graphics and compositing.

There is a reverse-engineering project (nouveau?) to write a driver for even nvidia cards, but AFAIK it isn't ready yet for 3D acceleration or KMS.

http://www.osnews.com/story/21033/Nouveau_Becomes_Default_Driver_in...

Edited 2009-09-10 02:56 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Things are Still a Mess
by kaiwai on Thu 10th Sep 2009 03:13 in reply to "RE: Things are Still a Mess"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

I'm sorry ... what exactly will we need fglrx for?

For the next kernel, 2.6.32 or later, only nvidia cards will still require a binary blob driver for 3D hardware accelerated graphics and compositing.

There is a reverse-engineering project (nouveau?) to write a driver for even nvidia cards, but AFAIK it isn't ready yet for 3D acceleration or KMS.

http://www.osnews.com/story/21033/Nouveau_Becomes_Default_Driver_in...


Excluding the open source argument; I wouldn't use Nvidia simply their products are poor quality and have been so for many years. The only people who don't seem to care about stability and quality are ricers and gamers who seem to change their hardware configurations more times than they change their undies.

This is one of the reasons I have resisted getting a new MacBook - I don't want Nvidia in my laptop or desktop; they've screwed the pooch far too many times with customers that have MacBook Pro loaded with 8400 GPU's still experiencing GPU failures with some having had their boards replaced 4 times.

Quite frankly, I'd sooner go for a ATI powered laptop running Windows than having a MacBook with an Nvidia chipset from Apple. Yes, I loath Nvidia that much.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Things are Still a Mess
by lemur2 on Thu 10th Sep 2009 03:26 in reply to "RE[2]: Things are Still a Mess"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

"I'm sorry ... what exactly will we need fglrx for? For the next kernel, 2.6.32 or later, only nvidia cards will still require a binary blob driver for 3D hardware accelerated graphics and compositing. There is a reverse-engineering project (nouveau?) to write a driver for even nvidia cards, but AFAIK it isn't ready yet for 3D acceleration or KMS. http://www.osnews.com/story/21033/Nouveau_Becomes_Default_Driver_in...
Excluding the open source argument; I wouldn't use Nvidia simply their products are poor quality and have been so for many years. The only people who don't seem to care about stability and quality are ricers and gamers who seem to change their hardware configurations more times than they change their undies. This is one of the reasons I have resisted getting a new MacBook - I don't want Nvidia in my laptop or desktop; they've screwed the pooch far too many times with customers that have MacBook Pro loaded with 8400 GPU's still experiencing GPU failures with some having had their boards replaced 4 times. Quite frankly, I'd sooner go for a ATI powered laptop running Windows than having a MacBook with an Nvidia chipset from Apple. Yes, I loath Nvidia that much. "

That is all fine from a personal point of view. I too bought my last hardware with ATI graphics specifically because ATI published the specifications for open source developers. Excellent. Kudos to AMD/ATI.

However, having said that, it is still important that open source doesn't abandon those people who have nvidia hardware, IMO.

For that reason, even though I wouldn't get nvidia hardware myself, I still applaud the efforts of the Nouveau project.

Apparently they have Xrender hardware acceleration working (so KDE4 should be good to go), and they have made strides towards (but still have some way to go yet) for KMS, Gallium 3D support, 3D support in general, video support etc, etc.

Still, it works well enough for desktop use such that Fedora have been able to adopt it for the default desktop. Even if you don't like nvidia, this is still a good thing for users.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Things are Still a Mess
by werpu on Thu 10th Sep 2009 04:54 in reply to "RE[2]: Things are Still a Mess"
werpu Member since:
2006-01-18

Actually quality was the reason why i dropped ati and replaced it with an nvidia card. The ATI drivers sucked majorly for Linux while the Windows drivers were working excellently.
Getting compiz up and running without locking X was a trial and error test (which stuff did not lock up X could be enabled the other one had to be disabled)
The revision before even crashed X on video window resize.
You can tell me many things about nvidia, but with the card I just had to enable the binary drivers and suddenly everything worked flawlessly, no X crashes anymore.
ATI always has been like that, good hardware really shoddy drivers, but at least under Windows they finally have gotten their act together driverwise, the Linux land is business as usual. And btw. where are the BSD drivers?

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE[3]: Things are Still a Mess
by Jondice on Thu 10th Sep 2009 06:35 in reply to "RE[2]: Things are Still a Mess"
Jondice Member since:
2006-09-20

A few years ago ATI was nothing but trouble for me and some of my friends in *Windows*. In Linux, it was much worse. I haven't tried ATI lately, but now that they have OSS drivers, I do hope that the quality of the hardware and drivers has gone up.

Reply Parent Score: 1

moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

Sorry but you only have to blame Apple for it.

NVidia only produces drivers for desktop systems based on their reference design boards.

The drivers coming with your Mac are partially developed by Apple. One are where I was disappointed with Snow Leopard is that it still lives in OpenGL 2.1 world.

Macs are good for many things, but not for Graphics workstations.

Comparing ATI and NVidia, the later gives way much better support to developers making use of their products. Just look to the amount of tools and developer documentation that each vendor is providing.

What I find positive is that ATI is providing GLSL support on their tools, while NVidia only provides Cg and HLSL.

Reply Parent Score: 2

WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

Excluding the open source argument; I wouldn't use Nvidia simply their products are poor quality and have been so for many years. The only people who don't seem to care about stability and quality are ricers and gamers who seem to change their hardware configurations more times than they change their undies.

I have it exactly the opposite; I've never had anything except trouble with ATi cards and I've found nVidia cards to not only perform very well but also be stable as a rock as well.

As for driver side.. well, nVidia drivers may be binary but they've ALWAYS worked like a dream for me and support all the functionality of the card in question, even old cards are still supported. But my old ATi cards..well, the last ATi driver that works for them doesn't work with Compiz, it's unstable as heck and is somehow oddly slow. The open-source one works otherwise okayish except I still can't make TV-out work and the open-source one doesn't support pixel shaders. The lack of support for pixel shaders totally blows.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[3]: Things are Still a Mess
by dagw on Thu 10th Sep 2009 10:31 in reply to "RE[2]: Things are Still a Mess"
dagw Member since:
2005-07-06

I wouldn't use Nvidia simply their products are poor quality and have been so for many years.

I've worked in several companies and industries where the stability and quality of the GPU is paramount and it's been many years since I worked in a place that didn't use Nvidia GPUs. These people are neither "ricers" or "gamers", but professionals who need to be able to depend on their graphics cards, and they're all happy with Nvidia (or at least more happy than they'd be with any other brand).

Reply Parent Score: 7

tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

Wow... what an "objective" BS you just wrote there, backed by absolutely no evidence other than personal bias.

Given that NVIDIA defined, literally, 3D graphics in Linux. And the fact that up til recently ATi had mediocre support for the OS at best, and there are still plenty of features missing from the ATi drivers (which up to recently were just plain awful, in both Windows and Linux land BTW). Then yeah, it sounds like "you know what you are talking about" NOT.

Seriously, I never though I would see the day where someone would try to make a serious attempt at claiming with a straight face that ATI products work better under linux that NVIDIA's.

Reply Parent Score: 4