Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 10th Nov 2009 09:31 UTC
Windows Last week, security vendor Sophos published a blog post in which it said that Windows 7 was vulnerable to 8 our of 10 of the most common viruses. Microsoft has responded to these test results, which are a classic case of "scare 'm and they'll fall in line".
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RE[6]: They deserve it
by lemur2 on Wed 11th Nov 2009 02:24 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: They deserve it"
lemur2
Member since:
2007-02-17

there are MANY cases where no open source application exists for what you want to do.


Just on this ... this is also an oft-touted claim, but it has no credibility without justification.

Games is one area where this perhaps has some semblance of validity, but if you want to play games why not just buy a games console?

As for other, real-world actual desktop applications ... I'd like to hear of one with wide adoption (say over 80% of desktop users would run applications of that kind) where one couldn't get good software for Linux to achieve that end.

I'm talking email clients, browsers, Office suites, editors, collection managers etc, etc ... exactly what kind of software do you imagine one can't you get for Linux?

Edited 2009-11-11 02:27 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[7]: They deserve it
by cb_osn on Wed 11th Nov 2009 03:54 in reply to "RE[6]: They deserve it"
cb_osn Member since:
2006-02-26

Games is one area where this perhaps has some semblance of validity, but if you want to play games why not just buy a games console?

Way off topic, but this is rather ironic coming from you considering that one of the main advantages to PC gaming is that developers often release tools/SDKs that allow you to modify their games and share your work with others. Whereas consoles are about as locked down and DRM ridden as you can get.

I've seen this line of reasoning often enough to learn that supporting DRM and impenetrable devices, particularly for gaming, is just fine for some in the Free Software crowd as long as it serves to devalue one of the true advantages that Windows has over Linux.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[7]: They deserve it
by tomcat on Wed 11th Nov 2009 04:09 in reply to "RE[6]: They deserve it"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

Just on this ... this is also an oft-touted claim, but it has no credibility without justification.


Well, allow me to retort...

Games is one area where this perhaps has some semblance of validity, but if you want to play games why not just buy a games console?


Ah, yes. That old familiar kneejerk response from a Linux fanboy upon discovering Use-Cases that they can't handle: Criticize the user. Nice. How's that working for you? Converting lots of "dumb, ignorant users" with that approach?

As for other, real-world actual desktop applications ... I'd like to hear of one with wide adoption (say over 80% of desktop users would run applications of that kind) where one couldn't get good
software for Linux to achieve that end.


Um, sorry, but you don't get to narrow the scenarios to some arbitrary percentage of users in order to deflect the damage. Users have all kinds of different needs -- and in fact, needs that are already being met by OS X and Windows -- so you're going to have to try harder to pretend all they need is a web browser and an Office suite.

I'm talking email clients, browsers, Office suites, editors, collection managers etc, etc ... exactly what kind of software do you imagine one can't you get for Linux?


Mac/Windows............Linux
Photoshop.................GIMP (crap)
Quicken.....................Zilch
Autocad.....................Zilch
PageMaker.................Zilch
Visio........................Zilch
Access......................Zilch
AfterEffects................Zilch
3DStudio MAX...............Zilch
A zillion vertical apps...Zilch

Edited 2009-11-11 04:19 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[8]: They deserve it
by lemur2 on Wed 11th Nov 2009 04:42 in reply to "RE[7]: They deserve it"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

"I'm talking email clients, browsers, Office suites, editors, collection managers etc, etc ... exactly what kind of software do you imagine one can't you get for Linux?
Mac/Windows............Linux Photoshop.................GIMP (crap) Quicken.....................Zilch Autocad.....................Zilch PageMaker.................Zilch Visio........................Zilch Access......................Zilch AfterEffects................Zilch 3DStudio MAX...............Zilch A zillion vertical apps...Zilch "

Those are specific apps, not kinds of apps.

Photoshop is a hugely expensive application that wouldn't be of use to more than 1% of the population. GIMP is more than good enough for the other 99%.

Quicken ... Moneydance.
Access ... OpenOffice base, firebird
Visio ... Dia, OpenOffice draw

The rest also have a low user base, but anyway:

Autocad ... http://www.linuxlinks.com/Software/Graphics/CAD/
Pagemaker ... Scribus
AfterEffects ... cinefx, kdenlive
3DStudio MAX ... Blender

A zillion vertical apps ... none of which are used by 99% of people.

OK, so therefore you have shown that Linux is not the best choice yet for 1% of the desktop userbase.

You are just a tad shy of the 80% level-of-use applications I asked you about.

Edited 2009-11-11 04:44 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[8]: They deserve it
by gustl on Wed 11th Nov 2009 21:56 in reply to "RE[7]: They deserve it"
gustl Member since:
2006-01-19

Mac/Windows.....Linux
Photoshop..............GIMP, Krita
Quicken................Gnucash
Autocad................PRO/E, Catia, ...
PageMaker..............Inkscape, Scribus
Visio..................OODraw, Umbrello
Access.................OOBase + Database
AfterEffects...........Houdini
3DStudio MAX...........blender
Zilch..................Computing on 4 of 4 cores + working in desktop app

Of course, if you have experience with the apps you use on Windows which are not available on Linux, you will experience quite some disappointments. And most likely you will not switch.

As did I when I was switched from HPUX and Linux over to Windows at my workplace, and found out how hard it can be to find a decently working editor in the Windows world. In the end I left the company.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[7]: They deserve it
by vaughancoveny on Wed 11th Nov 2009 11:00 in reply to "RE[6]: They deserve it"
vaughancoveny Member since:
2007-12-26

As for other, real-world actual desktop applications ... I'd like to hear of one with wide adoption (say over 80% of desktop users would run applications of that kind) where one couldn't get good software for Linux to achieve that end.


This is quite unfair because many of those applications exist already. What u say following this quote is unattributable to tangible uses.

I would like to see back-of-book Indexing
software for Linux.
Macrex runs on another Unix, but is really for geeks, not Indexers. Cindex is the best, runs on Windows, uses a database creation layout.
There are many Open Source books.

This software is not for geeks, there are Indexing courses around the world; cheapest in United States.

Edited 2009-11-11 11:11 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[8]: They deserve it
by lemur2 on Wed 11th Nov 2009 12:04 in reply to "RE[7]: They deserve it"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

"As for other, real-world actual desktop applications ... I'd like to hear of one with wide adoption (say over 80% of desktop users would run applications of that kind) where one couldn't get good software for Linux to achieve that end.


This is quite unfair because many of those applications exist already. What u say following this quote is unattributable to tangible uses.

I would like to see back-of-book Indexing
software for Linux.
"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LyX
http://www.lyx.org/
http://wiki.lyx.org/Tips/Indexing

LyX is a document processor that encourages an approach to writing based on the structure of your documents (WYSIWYM) and not simply their appearance (WYSIWYG).

LyX combines the power and flexibility of TeX/LaTeX with the ease of use of a graphical interface. This results in world-class support for creation of mathematical content (via a fully integrated equation editor) and structured documents like academic articles, theses, and books. In addition, staples of scientific authoring such as reference list and index creation come standard. But you can also use LyX to create a letter or a novel or a theatre play or film script. A broad array of ready, well-designed document layouts are built in.


http://www.lyx.org/Features

For reference, LyX is effectively a GUI front-end for LaTeX

http://www.latex-project.org/

Very powerful, professional document preparation software.

http://www.latex-project.org/intro.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WYSIWYM

Edited 2009-11-11 12:21 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2