Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 2nd Feb 2010 23:25 UTC, submitted by Chicken Blood
Apple The beauty of the internet is such that every opinion has become worthless; this goes doubly so for those with publish buttons on (relatively, we're humble) major websites. For every opinion, there's a matching counter-opinion, and that's great. Yesterday, we linked to an article by Mark Pilgrim about tinkerers and the iPad, and of course, someone was bound to disagree with that one.
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Now that's Sniveling!
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Wed 3rd Feb 2010 00:12 UTC
Bill Shooter of Bul
Member since:
2006-07-14

The author is whining more than anyone else I've heard. He's a pragmatist who's willing to compromise. Nothing really wrong with that, we need people like that. But, he's trashing the whole notion of idealism (talk about grandiose), and that's just wrong. There are times when even avowed idealists have to compromise. That doesn't mean that they cannot have ideals and try to change the world to fit those ideals. They just shouldn't give up because the world doesn't adhere to their idea of what it should be.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Now that's Sniveling!
by nt_jerkface on Wed 3rd Feb 2010 00:44 in reply to "Now that's Sniveling! "
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

No he is pointing out that there are plenty of gadgets to tinker with.

There are in fact far more computing devices to tinker with than there were in the 80's. So this idea that Apple is starting a war against tinkerers is just plain silly.

You can get a tablet pc that runs Linux. You can get a toy robot that runs Linux. Apple computers have always been locked up, I barely learned anything with them as a kid. I learned far more taking my pc apart and making custom autoexec.bat and config.sys files so my games would work.

Kids have all kinds of options these days to learn how computers work. Most don't care just as most adults don't care. Some people seem to have a hard time with this reality.

Reply Parent Score: 3

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

And you seem to have a hard time with the reality that we are NOT talking about now, but about the future. A lot of people - me included - fear where this is going to, not where it is now.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Now that's Sniveling!
by jimbee on Wed 3rd Feb 2010 02:34 in reply to "RE: Now that's Sniveling! "
jimbee Member since:
2007-05-05

Apple computers have not always been locked up. The Apple II series was very open.

Reply Parent Score: 1

bosco_bearbank Member since:
2005-10-12

Apple computers have not always been locked up! I don't know if that statement represents stupidity or just plain ignorance on your part (the latter is excusable, the former is not), but the Apple ][ and its immediate successors were definitely not locked up.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Now that's Sniveling!
by cb_osn on Wed 3rd Feb 2010 03:23 in reply to "Now that's Sniveling! "
cb_osn Member since:
2006-02-26

The author is whining more than anyone else I've heard. He's a pragmatist who's willing to compromise. Nothing really wrong with that, we need people like that. But, he's trashing the whole notion of idealism (talk about grandiose), and that's just wrong. There are times when even avowed idealists have to compromise. That doesn't mean that they cannot have ideals and try to change the world to fit those ideals. They just shouldn't give up because the world doesn't adhere to their idea of what it should be.

All well and good, but they're not really idealists-- they are reactionaries. The direction that Apple is moving is a welcome change after nearly two decades of stagnation in personal computing. It's a new computing model and just because Apple's version of it is closed doesn't mean that being closed is inherent to the model. The problem is that these so called idealists are not putting forth any alternatives-- they are only arguing for the status quo. When it comes to technology, the status quo is not good enough.

In other words, if you don't like what Apple is doing, then show us something else. I'd love to see some other ideas, particularly from those that prefer open solutions. If all you have to offer as alternatives are Windows, GNOME or KDE on a netbook or slate, and you honestly think that is acceptable for the next decade of computing, then you just don't get it and likely never will.

Reply Parent Score: 2

Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Its not like we're reactionary against any real part of the iphone or the ipad. We wouldn't be "reacting" if we were able to install our own programs on the devices without "jail breaking" the devices. Its not a criticism of any functional part of the system.

I also reject the patently absurd idea that the computer industry has ever stagnated. That's ridiculous.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Now that's Sniveling!
by _xmv on Wed 3rd Feb 2010 10:56 in reply to "RE: Now that's Sniveling! "
_xmv Member since:
2008-12-09


All well and good, but they're not really idealists-- they are reactionaries. The direction that Apple is moving is a welcome change after nearly two decades of stagnation in personal computing. It's a new computing model and just because Apple's version of it is closed doesn't mean that being closed is inherent to the model.

In other words, if you don't like what Apple is doing, then show us something else.

what the hell are you talking about?
how is the iPad different ? you've never seen a tablet pc before? Cause they've been around for 10 years, mind you. All there is, is an Apple marketing head on top of it. That's no new computing model. Neither is making it entierely DRM controlled and closed.
Have you seen the anti-intel TPM video? that's the same story, except they don't even need to cover it under the claims of greater security anymore.

Heck, its even using a 3 years old OS and apps.

Such people as you, which are called sheeps, are the reason for most things going wrong in this world. Time to get off your eye protections and look around.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Now that's Sniveling!
by boldingd on Wed 3rd Feb 2010 17:38 in reply to "RE: Now that's Sniveling! "
boldingd Member since:
2009-02-19

Old is not always bad, and new is not automatically better. There are plenty of things that are very wrong with what Apple is doing, and pointing that out doesn't mean that we're idiots who can't clearly see where the technology is headed.

That shouldn't need to be said; it should be obvious. The revelation that "things will probably be different in ten years!" shouldn't by everybody who wants to do things differently a free pass out of critical analysis of the benefits and costs of their proposition, nor should it require me to come up with some brilliant scheme to Fundamentally Alter the Desktop to point out the obvious downsides in Apple's brilliant plan.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Now that's Sniveling!
by jabbotts on Wed 3rd Feb 2010 19:22 in reply to "RE: Now that's Sniveling! "
jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

got a staffed fab plant you can lend me?

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Now that's Sniveling!
by macUser on Wed 3rd Feb 2010 05:51 in reply to "Now that's Sniveling! "
macUser Member since:
2006-12-15

The author is whining more than anyone else I've heard. He's a pragmatist who's willing to compromise. Nothing really wrong with that, we need people like that. But, he's trashing the whole notion of idealism (talk about grandiose), and that's just wrong. There are times when even avowed idealists have to compromise. That doesn't mean that they cannot have ideals and try to change the world to fit those ideals. They just shouldn't give up because the world doesn't adhere to their idea of what it should be.


The problem is the "idealists" sounds like 3 year olds... Hold one company to a higher standard than the rest and like to pretend they speak for everyone. Idealism is one thing, hysterics is quite another...

Quite frankly, I think this device is very idealistic. But one persons paradise is another persons cesspool. If you like it buy it. If you don't, don't buy it. It's quite simple.

Reply Parent Score: 2