Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 21st Apr 2010 23:01 UTC
Linux The tools used to boot Linux are changing. Specifically, the Grand Unified Bootloader is now officially in maintenance mode only, and GRUB's developers have abandoned the original GRUB in favor of an entirely rewritten package, known as GRUB 2. Discover GRUB 2's new capabilities and how to use it.
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Vent
by fretinator on Thu 22nd Apr 2010 00:20 UTC
fretinator
Member since:
2005-07-06

[vent]
I do not like Grub2. I had few problems with grub, but Grub2 has been very unstable for me. 3 different Grub2 problems bit me on 1 laptop

1. By default, it would detect drives by UUID, and bomb when it couldn't find the drive (even though the UUID was correct). This is a known issue. I had to turn the UUID feature off.

2. There was a line with a "search...." statement in it. This also caused a problem, so I had to figure out how to get rid of it.

3. There was some line at the beginning that had to do with recordfail. I had an unclean shutdown, that I guess caused some file it was looking for to not exist - again a fail to boot. I had to edit some file in /usr/lib/ to get this to go away.

The bottom line is Grub 2 had configuration files spread out all over the place that you must edit if you have trouble. You can't just edit grub.cfg, as it will be regenerated with kernel updates. You have to find the right files to edit that are used as source when grub.cfg get recreated.

I don't think it is stable enough yet to be abandoning the grub line, but that seems to be just they way it goes in the Linux world. Maybe I'll have to go back to Lilo!!
[/vent]

Reply Score: 9

RE: Vent
by sakeniwefu on Thu 22nd Apr 2010 00:41 in reply to "Vent"
sakeniwefu Member since:
2008-02-26

Even without the bugs, who asked them to make it backwards incompatible?

If you think the old bootconf format needs to die, write a porting tool or at least document the damn new format and tell the user you are going to break everything with the next update.

When distros first switched, there wasn't much information on the net and, of course, it is Linux - you can't expect it to be properly documented on your own system.

BTW, they have an auto-detector, last time I looked it was able to detect Windows and Linux installations. Out of the thousands of OSes, many of which use GRUB.

Sorry, MikeOS is not supported, however, you can install Windows (R) instead. Now on sale for only $299.99!

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE: Vent
by looncraz on Thu 22nd Apr 2010 02:58 in reply to "Vent"
looncraz Member since:
2005-07-24

Agreed!

Grub2 has been a major PITA! I can't even install newer versions of Ubuntu on most any machine anymore.

Grub2 may have more potential, but let us realize that potential before we use it wide-spread.

I, too, find it outright idiotic to edit ten different files to do what once only required editing one file. I finally, after HOURS of trying, managed to even get Grub2 to update properly enough to get an image to display instead of the ugly default look.

I'm sure the hassles will improve with time, but that should have been a priority prior to release.

People in the Linux community need to try and make things easy for those outside of the community to join and be proficient. That is what made BeOS so great. With BeOS, everything was clean and simple and worked as you thought it should work from reading a couple lines of a description.

It would also be nice if Linux installers would show all available OSes and permit configuring ( graphically ) the boot loader for the next boot. It shouldn't take hours of studying by a well-experienced computer tech to figure out how to change the order of operating systems and add a background.

Of course, on Ubuntu, I figured out that I had to 'sudo apt-get install grub2' which was counter-intuitive, considering grub2 was installed by default ( but apparently not the utilities... ).

On a related note, that makes me wonder why so few ( any? ) Linux distributions allow customizing the installation.

Ubuntu's installer could simply ask where you were to determine most everything they ask at the start of the installation.

And why do I have to select Monterrey, Mexico when I'm in Texas? That makes no sense to me ( yes, I know the actual reason, but it should be hidden from the user ).

Oh well, nothing is perfect...

--The loon

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Vent
by ricegf on Thu 22nd Apr 2010 13:54 in reply to "RE: Vent"
ricegf Member since:
2007-04-25

@The loon: Ubuntu's installer could simply ask where you were to determine most everything they ask at the start of the installation.

Perhaps, but Ubuntu asks *far* fewer questions than Win 7 during installation. Ubuntu also has the courtesy to ask all of its questions up front and then complete installation unattended, rather than ask a few questions, install a bit, reboot, lather, rinse, repeat. And it leaves you with most common apps pre-installed, rather than almost naked like the competition.

I compared the two in more detail at http://ricegf.posterous.com/installing-your-own-os-whos-easy. Ubuntu isn't perfect (I live in east Texas but have to choose Chicago for time zone?!?), but it's not bad. Improvements are always appreciated, of course. :-)

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Vent
by Ensue85A on Thu 22nd Apr 2010 19:13 in reply to "RE: Vent"
Ensue85A Member since:
2009-07-10

Maybe we need to drop grub altogether in favor of the BeOS boot menu....I've wanted to do that for years.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Vent
by turrini on Thu 22nd Apr 2010 16:50 in reply to "Vent"
turrini Member since:
2006-10-31

I've never had a GRUB2 problem, and I'm talking about of 1200+ installations of it at the company I work for, in mixed Debian testing/sid/experimental environments.

Sorry dude, but let the documentation help you before you start complaining.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Vent
by aaronb on Thu 22nd Apr 2010 17:01 in reply to "RE: Vent"
aaronb Member since:
2005-07-06

Are the 1200+ installations on a variety of hardware configurations?

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Vent
by fretinator on Thu 22nd Apr 2010 17:40 in reply to "RE: Vent"
fretinator Member since:
2005-07-06

I'm elated when I report various issues with a product, and someone informs me that they have had no problems. Now I can sleep at night!

Seriously, my main complain is _NOT_ that Grub2 is a worse product. I've had trouble with the original Grub (especially when the BIOS mis-reported a drive size), and I have had troubles at times with LILO. This is normal. In my case, I think it had to do with the particular Tablet PC I was using. Some Tablet PC's have a wierd way of initializing there devices at startup.

Anyhoo, the point is that when something invariably goes wrong (which happens with all software - I write software for a living ;} ), the means by which you resolve these issues is quite tortuous in Grub2. By having its configuration spread out in multiple places (at least 3 that I know of), and multiple files in each location, they have created quite a puzzle for the end user. At some point, a good front-end to all of this will be created (there is one I have looked at so far), then this will become less of an issue.

Really, I would see Grub2 _currently_ as more appropriate for Fedora. For Ubuntu, which emphasizes the "Just Works" philosophy, I do not believe it is stable and friendly enough for the end user. Just my $0.03 (my opinion is worth 50% more).

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Vent
by Fettarme H-Milch on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 15:56 in reply to "Vent"
Fettarme H-Milch Member since:
2010-02-16

I do not like Grub2. I had few problems with grub, but Grub2 has been very unstable for me.

Grub2 does -- as of yet -- not have an official stable release. It's not the Grub maintainers fault when Linux distributors who claim to ship stable software (hello, Ubuntu) use Grub2 nonetheless.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Vent
by fretinator on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 17:33 in reply to "RE: Vent"
fretinator Member since:
2005-07-06

Grub2 does -- as of yet -- not have an official stable release. It's not the Grub maintainers fault when Linux distributors who claim to ship stable software (hello, Ubuntu) use Grub2 nonetheless.


Very important point, thanks for clarifying!

Edited 2010-04-23 17:34 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2