Linked by David Adams on Sat 31st Jul 2010 06:05 UTC, submitted by fran
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless Microsoft had its annual financial analyst meeting on Thursday, and Steve Ballmer answered questions about what the company's answer to the iPad was going to be, and whether Windows Phone 7 was going to be a part of that product strategy. He said, "We're coming . . . We're coming full guns. The operating system is called Windows." Ballmer and Microsoft so don't get it. I can't believe Steve Ballmer is making me feel sorry for Microsoft.
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RE: Honk! Honk!
by modmans2ndcoming on Sat 31st Jul 2010 13:37 UTC in reply to "Honk! Honk!"
modmans2ndcoming
Member since:
2005-11-09

WTF? You know that little 6 year delay between XP and Vista... what do you think they were doing to the code? They completely refactored it. that is why Windows 7 is way better than any Windows OS previous.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[2]: Honk! Honk!
by Weeman on Sat 31st Jul 2010 15:30 in reply to "RE: Honk! Honk!"
Weeman Member since:
2006-03-20

No, during that huge delay, they've restarted the Longhorn/Vista project twice and did that stupid code review. The despaghettifying started during that and they're still not done. Even MinWin still needs a tons of DLL aliasing hacks, because the kernel's still making calls to upper layers, which again depend on a lot of GUI code, shit like USER32, KERNEL32 and such. If you call that a successful refactoring, you're deluded.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Honk! Honk!
by kaiwai on Sat 31st Jul 2010 15:48 in reply to "RE[2]: Honk! Honk!"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

No, during that huge delay, they've restarted the Longhorn/Vista project twice and did that stupid code review. The despaghettifying started during that and they're still not done. Even MinWin still needs a tons of DLL aliasing hacks, because the kernel's still making calls to upper layers, which again depend on a lot of GUI code, shit like USER32, KERNEL32 and such. If you call that a successful refactoring, you're deluded.


I don't know what you've been reading but Microsoft has relocated a tonne of code into particular DLL's and the only thing that has been done from there is creating stubs that re-direct calls from third parties and old software to the new DLL's. The changes at the core have already been made - the only reason for the DLL redirects is for backwards compatibility. I can bloody well assure you if they didn't include these DLL redirects there would be hell to pay.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Honk! Honk!
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Sat 31st Jul 2010 15:34 in reply to "RE: Honk! Honk!"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Unfortunately, I do know what they were doing with the code between XP an vista: Totally F**king it up. They had to start over from scratch after xp sp2.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_Windows_Vista#Mid-2004_...


Windows 7 gave us the birth of minwin. However the GP has a point. Windows does not scale from embedded to server with the same kernel. Windows phone 7 is a different OS than windows 7.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Honk! Honk!
by Laurence on Mon 2nd Aug 2010 09:39 in reply to "RE[2]: Honk! Honk!"
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

Windows 7 gave us the birth of minwin. However the GP has a point. Windows does not scale from embedded to server with the same kernel. Windows phone 7 is a different OS than windows 7.

People are confusing the terms 'OS' and 'kernel' here.

Kernel is the smallest and lowest level part of the OS. It's usually just a few MB in size.
Where as the OS is the kernel and userspace tools as well.

Windows as an OS does not scale well. It's user space tools are not touch sentric and have a huge memory foot print - so it's out of the question for phones.

However theres little reason why NT as a kernel couldn't run on embedded devices, beyond the fact that Microsoft already have embedded user space tools built for a different kernel.

Another example of my point is how Windows 7 Home and Windows Server 2008 both have an NT kernel despite having a different set of user space tools tayloring the operating systems for entirely different markets (desktop and server).

And going back to the Win7 vs Linux / OS X, the same point is true. Neither Android / WebOS nor iOS use Linux nor OS X's desktop or server user space tools. They're the same kernel but effectively a whole new OS in their own right.



So really, no desktop OS scales well. But the kernels can and often do. And this is true for Linux, BSD / Mach and NT too.

Reply Parent Score: 2