Linked by boulabiar on Mon 16th Aug 2010 21:36 UTC
Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu In June 2009 we had some very good news about the integration of multitouch events support inside the Linux kernel. Since then, many multitouch device drivers were developed, mostly in collaboration with LII-ENAC, to take advantage from this. All the work was kernel-based, and multitouch supports needs more components to be added in a stack to get multitouch working out of the box. Canonical got interested in providing the needed user experience for multitouch by developing a new gesture engine that recognizes the grammar of natural hand gestures and provide them upstream in the stack as new events.
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RE[5]: Comment by Stratoukos
by jbauer on Tue 17th Aug 2010 21:28 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Stratoukos"
jbauer
Member since:
2005-07-06

So as far as I'm concerned, the warnings were well known but people chose to ignore them and went out of their way to install KDE4.0 despite it being the non-standard KDE package. And sorry for the rant, but sometimes it just strikes me as if it's easier for people to moan about open source than it is to use a little common sense nor contribute back)



Sigh. Go look at the official release notes for KDE 4.0. Is there something on them that even slightly resembles "unstable release", "platform preview", "development preview" or anything of the sort? Something that implies that only the base libraries are somewhat complete and the rest is in alpha state? Something that indicates that what is being released is nothing other than a complete, usable, final user-oriented desktop environment?

If they had been honest no one in their right mind would have blamed them. If they'd come out and say "look, it's a huge endeavour and it's taking far longer than we thought", wouldn't that have been much better for everyone?

Of course not. Why be open and honest when you can blame poor, foolish, stupid users? After all, it's a strategy that is working wonders for open source desktops, right?

Reply Parent Score: 2

Richard Dale Member since:
2005-07-22

" So as far as I'm concerned, the warnings were well known but people chose to ignore them and went out of their way to install KDE4.0 despite it being the non-standard KDE package. And sorry for the rant, but sometimes it just strikes me as if it's easier for people to moan about open source than it is to use a little common sense nor contribute back)



Sigh. Go look at the official release notes for KDE 4.0. Is there something on them that even slightly resembles "unstable release", "platform preview", "development preview" or anything of the sort? Something that implies that only the base libraries are somewhat complete and the rest is in alpha state? Something that indicates that what is being released is nothing other than a complete, usable, final user-oriented desktop environment?

If they had been honest no one in their right mind would have blamed them. If they'd come out and say "look, it's a huge endeavour and it's taking far longer than we thought", wouldn't that have been much better for everyone?

Of course not. Why be open and honest when you can blame poor, foolish, stupid users? After all, it's a strategy that is working wonders for open source desktops, right?
"

<p>Your read OSNews, so you would have also read Ars Technica at the time of the KDE 4.0 release right? Here is a quote from Ars Technica about the KDE 4.0 release:</p>

<p>"..While reading this article, it is important to keep in mind that KDE 4 is still largely incomplete. Many of the details provided in this article reflect the fact that the 4.0 release is not a finished product. The KDE development team controversially decided to release 4.0 in a premature state in order to stimulate user interest and promote accelerated development. The result is that KDE 4.0 is, in many ways, like a preview for developers and technical enthusiasts rather than a release for enterprise desktops and production environments. My extensive testing shows that KDE 4.0 can be used on a day-to-day basis, but there are many inconveniences posed by the software's current limitations. In this article, I will try to provide a balance of forward-looking analysis and detailed descriptions of the software's current state.."</p>

<p>I'm just so tired of reading all these posts about KDE 4.0. Get over it, the release happened over two years ago. Without KDE 4.0 we wouldn't be able to have the awsome KDE 4.5 release.</p>

<p>Let's talk about more interesting stuff like the Ubuntu multi-touch apis for the Linux desktop instead of sounding like stuck records.</p>

<p>One thing I noticed when I was playing with the iPhone apis a while ago, was how primitive they were. They were in terms of things like 'finger one is now is position x1.y1 and finger two is now position x2.y2. It seemed pretty low level to me. If the Ubuntu touch api is working of a higher level than that, then I think it could be a big step forward. A sign the the iOS apis are a bit low level is that iPad apps don't have a standard vocabulary of touch gestures.</p>

Edited 2010-08-17 22:00 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

Chicken Blood Member since:
2005-12-21

One thing I noticed when I was playing with the iPhone apis a while ago, was how primitive they were. They were in terms of things like 'finger one is now is position x1.y1 and finger two is now position x2.y2. It seemed pretty low level to me. If the Ubuntu touch api is working of a higher level than that, then I think it could be a big step forward. A sign the the iOS apis are a bit low level is that iPad apps don't have a standard vocabulary of touch gestures.


That's completely wrong. I guess you missed UIGestureRecognizer.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[6]: Comment by Stratoukos
by Soulbender on Wed 18th Aug 2010 01:48 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by Stratoukos"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Yeah, why be honest when you can blame your own inability to read simple instructions on something else?

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[6]: Comment by Stratoukos
by Laurence on Wed 18th Aug 2010 12:14 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by Stratoukos"
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

Sigh. Go look at the official release notes for KDE 4.0. Is there something on them that even slightly resembles "unstable release", "platform preview", "development preview" or anything of the sort? Something that implies that only the base libraries are somewhat complete and the rest is in alpha state? Something that indicates that what is being released is nothing other than a complete, usable, final user-oriented desktop environment?


You can't even download KDE from the press release so why should they post their bug list there. In fact the only way you can get KDE4.0 from their website was via svn - which if users are smart enough to do that and compile their own packages, then they're also smart enough to know not to do so on a production machine.

If they had been honest no one in their right mind would have blamed them. If they'd come out and say "look, it's a huge endeavour and it's taking far longer than we thought", wouldn't that have been much better for everyone?


They did say that though. They said that numerous times. In fact OSNews even reported this on a few occasions. The KDE team can't be held accountable because some users just click "install" without reading a single thing first. Heck, on Debian, KDE4.0 was only available on the "experimental" branch - surely that should have raised alarm bells. IIRC the same was try with ArchLinux. Kubuntu and OpenSuse even offered a LiveCD for users to try without installing.

Any major upgrade like this demands a little reading first anyway - so the fact that they missed the very public statements on both the distribution sites, news sites and KDE's own site is even less excusable. It's like upgrading your Windows box from XP to Vista then complaining when your 16bit apps aren't working. If it's a major upgrade to a production system then read, test and only then should you go live.

So yes, I do blame the users. It was made very clear that this was an unstable and very major upgrade. It was also a non-standard release on all but Fedora. And finally it was also made very easy to test 4.0 without even needing to install. Thus quibbling about version numbers is nothing more than an excuse to compensate for a complete lack of common sense.

Why be open and honest when you can blame poor, foolish, stupid users? After all, it's a strategy that is working wonders for open source desktops, right?


Excuse me? Remember the problems with Windows Vista and how users were ignored by MS because they bought computers that weren't powerful enough despite having Vista preinstalled? Or how about how Apple blamed users for holding the iPhone wrong?

At every point the KDE team responded with "run 3.5.x if you want a stable production environment". If anything, that's an acknowledgement that their software isn't ready yet rather than blaming the users that something doesn't work.

I'm sorry but that last pop at open source sounds really does sound more like prejudice than an informed opinion. Particularly as all I'm blaming users for is ignoring the warnings. Everybody else knew KDE4 was unstable so either stuck with 3.5.x or ran KDE4 on non-critical machines.

Reply Parent Score: 5