Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 20th Oct 2010 19:02 UTC
Apple So, Apple held its usual autumn press get-together just now, and after a few rather uninspiring ones (to me, at least), they finally managed to blow me away, with the new MacBook Air (especially the 11.6" variant). They also gave a sneak peek at Mac OS X 10.7 Lion, which has... An App Store. An App Store Apple is going to open on Snow Leopard within 90 days.
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RE[4]: Comment by Kroc
by TheGZeus on Thu 21st Oct 2010 02:25 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by Kroc"
TheGZeus
Member since:
2010-05-19

Yes.
You have said a series of logical, complete statements that fit together in a linear manner, connecting a number of thoughts together to form a complete picture of what you intended to say.

Man. Apple zealots really spew the bile now that they're gaining in number... I often wished they'd get more market share just so they'd stop acting like any other OS was destroying their lives, but since they've swung back somewhat, they're pushier and ruder...
I've had strangers verbally accost me and insult me because I didn't use a Mac, or at least OS X.
Paraphrased conversation after some kid who just started talking to me out of the blue, and refused to let me get back to writing something in Emacs (don't remember what it was...) told me that I should get a Mac, and wouldn't leave it at "I like this, it's all I need"


"I understand that it works for you. You have the right to use it and like it. I don't like how it works, and it can't do what I need and want it to."

"You just don't understand it! It's so much better than Windows!"
"I haven't used Windows in years."
"What do you use then?"
"Linux, a very minimal, customised Linux."
"What's a Linux?"(seriously)
"Linux is an family of operating systems, built around a single core. There are several kinds for different uses."
"That sounds confusing."
"*shrug* just takes time to learn, like anything."
"What I like about my Mac is that anyone can use it!"
"I can't. Nothing in it makes sense to me. Took me 15 minutes to figure out how to start a terminal, and I ended up using Google."
"You should give it some more time."

At that point I had to tell him that I wanted the subject to be closed, and not brought up again.
Once someone dips into circular logic, I cannot ever see them the same way again. I just picture a void through which no light can penetrate situated just behind their eyes...

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[5]: Comment by Kroc
by Morgan on Thu 21st Oct 2010 03:07 in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Kroc"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

Yes.
You have said a series of logical, complete statements that fit together in a linear manner, connecting a number of thoughts together to form a complete picture of what you intended to say.


Ok, it's late (for me, I have to be up for work in a few hours) so maybe I'm being dull, but is this sarcasm? And if not...ummm...thank you?

As to the rest of your anti-Apple-zealot rant, I'm going to assume you weren't referring to me, as I don't think I came off as a zealot in any genre. If anything I saw my post as very pro-HP Mini, but what do I know, I just wrote the damn thing.

As to your hatred of OS X, well to each his own of course, but I'm going to partially side with your seemingly well-meaning "kid" on the matter of how OS X is easy to learn and use, and add that it's a very powerful UNIX OS as well.

Some background: I have been using Linux since 1999, OS X since 2005, Mac OS classic since middle school (late 80s) and DOS/Windows weaved throughout that time frame. There's some BSD, BeOS (yay!), QNX, SyllableOS, Amiga, and CP/M in there too. I have yet to find an OS I hate, though I've found some to be fairly useless.

Given all that, I find OS X to be the quickest path to a *nix box that just freaking works, and a lot of the non-*nix stuff like AppleScript and the Services menu that provide amazing text and file manipulation abilities, combine to make one hell of a powerful OS.

I know it's not for everyone; personally I wish Apple would come up with a better Finder (don't we all, though?), and a lot of what it can do can be achieved in Linux or BSD with various levels of difficulty and learning curves, but the fact remains it's a powerhouse of an operating system that somehow manages to remain simple and accessible to the non-technical general public.

So why haven't I Hackintoshed my Mini yet? Well basically, I don't need OS X on the go. Between Windows and Ubuntu, the netbook does everything I need it to. I've even considered nuking the Windows install altogether and triple booting Ubuntu, Slackware and Haiku. Ubuntu for day-to-day functionality as it more or less fully supports the hardware (trackpad silliness notwithstanding); Slackware for straight up geeky fun i.e. the challenge of getting the hardware to work better than it does in Ubuntu; and Haiku for nostalgia and to try to work out hardware bugs so the Haiku team can add another netbook to the "supported" list.

So, take a step back, breathe, and try to realize that hatred of an OS is just plain illogical. Despise the more annoying zealots, sure; we all are guilty of that and it's warranted. But to hate an OS because you don't understand it only shows a lack of logical thinking or at the worst, a childlike mentality. Please, by all means continue using and enjoying your minimal Linux install, and try to understand that we all want to use what works best for us, just like you do.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[6]: Comment by Kroc
by TheGZeus on Thu 21st Oct 2010 03:45 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by Kroc"
TheGZeus Member since:
2010-05-19

Nope, not sarcasm. As such, I haven't yet read the rest of your follow-up.
There's just been alot of vitriol spewed in the comments here, and most people are just shouting gibberish at each other.
I've been ...colourful in my language, but if you look at the meat of what I've said, it follows logic, and the rest is opinion stated as such.

I simply admire your ability to see things for what they are, which seems to be a skill few possess.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[6]: Comment by Kroc
by TheGZeus on Thu 21st Oct 2010 04:16 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by Kroc"
TheGZeus Member since:
2010-05-19

Read the rest of your post now.
You're an Apple user, but not an Apple Person.

That said...
If you offered to sell me a classic car for 2000usd that was fully restored, I'd ask what the catch was.
There are catches with proprietary software and the ecosystem/enforced-abstraction that Apple creates/promotes with their products, services, and policies.
Lock-in, unfair business practices, developer abuse...
Then again, the only people getting hurt by the developer agreements are people trying to squeeze the plebes for all their fart-app, facebookspam, and silly shake-and-poke-your-phone dollar.

I didn't criticise OS X so much as Apple People (the kind of people saying "ANYTHING THAT ISN'T APPLE IS SHIT STEVE JOBS SAID NETBOOKS ARE SHIT THIS CAN'T BE A NETBOOK!", or the kind that start talking to me about their OS while I have headphones on, am typing, and trying to read about a completely different OS(Linux Format was open near me)), but since you went there...
I really, really dislike how OS X does things. Either type the name of the application or find it in a big list... huh? There's all kinds of brain-dead throughout their system. They might have some cool tools, but they're not making their money from people who know how to use them. They're making their money from people who don't know how to use anything but the dock. ...and I mean the dock for their iPhone.

Me trying to use OS X on my dad's iMac:
"There's... no menu... If I had a command line, I could find the command to open a terminal... -_- Dammit... Where's... Oh, you can search for the description... That's not how the developer would have described it I guess... Umm.... maybe if I go to this Apple symbol in the corner, I think that did something back in elementary school... Wait, it opens a file manager window to launch the programs?? What is this? Windows 3.1?? ALPHABETIC ORDER???"
I think at that point I decided that I'd rather not watch my parents' HDTV, and go use my own computer.

Cool text manipulation? I have Emacs.
I live in Emacs, tmux, zsh, Conkeror...
Do I expect everyone to do that? No.
Do I expect to not be accosted by strangers in caf├ęs and bookstores (I was looking for a book on BSD or something once years ago, and a guy started telling me I should stop using Linux and hackintosh.
Same basic thing "nah, I get why people like it, but those are the very reasons it's not for me"
"It's perfect for everybody!"
"I don't violate contracts"
"what?"
"it's not licensed for use on non-Apple hardware"
"oh, no one cares."
"I do."
"...It's really easy to do, too. I did it to all my computers. You should do it to your computer"
"It doesn't do what I want. I use a tiling window manager, I have no window decorations. I use bitmapped fonts. I use terminals and Emacs. I don't need anything OS X does, and it doesn't let me do any of these things (I know and knew that you can use alternative window managers/xterm etc in OS X, but it's hacky and weird. This guy was a space case with a 1000yd stare, and I wanted the conversation over)"
Then I said
"...and I have an AMD Processor in my laptop, anyway, so-"
"ah, so that's why you didn't do it..."
0_0 ... *walks off in a huff*

It's why I didn't try it back when my computer first died of careless XP use, (I can never not see that OS' name as an emoticon...) but within months I had a ThinkPad... and I put Debian on it.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[5]: Comment by Kroc
by kaiwai on Thu 21st Oct 2010 05:24 in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Kroc"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

So hang on, let me get this straight - you surrounded your self with loud mouth wankers and then extrapolate it over all Mac users? If you can't see the obvious problem with such an 'analysis' then any post showing you the errors of your ways is a waste of time.

If you don't like using a Mac then don't use one - end of story. I don't like running a Windows based computer hence I don't run one nor do I care if anyone did run one. As long as I'm not expected to help you nor listen to your woes, I don't care what you run.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: Comment by Kroc
by TheGZeus on Thu 21st Oct 2010 06:23 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by Kroc"
TheGZeus Member since:
2010-05-19

?
Strangers verbally accosting me in public places is my fault _how_?

But it's not as though I expected Apple People to be truly literate...

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[5]: Comment by Kroc
by Neolander on Thu 21st Oct 2010 05:50 in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Kroc"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

Yeah, the "it's not for me" thought is sometimes hard to transmit when dealing with the least mature kind of Mac user, the one who uses it "because x told me it's better, and I don't regret it the tiniest bit".

I used to think this way about Linux, when I was younger... Then I had to use Windows and realized that it was now an OK operating system and that the OS didn't actually matter for what I want to do as long as it's sufficiently flexible. Some never get that chance.

Today, I believe desktop OSs are pretty much on par. Each one is better in some areas and worse in others. There's no intrinsic "superiority" anymore. There are only qualities like speed, flexibility, ease of use, good look, application compatibility, freeware catalog, repository system...

Edited 2010-10-21 06:02 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[6]: Comment by Kroc
by TheGZeus on Thu 21st Oct 2010 06:30 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by Kroc"
TheGZeus Member since:
2010-05-19

Heh, the weird dude who was literally insisting that I hackintosh my computer was at least 40.
A good number of these people have been tithing since the 128k.

Well, *nix systems have the advantage of allowing you flexible access to the lower levels of the system, and in an approachable, programmatic manner.
Free operating systems give a much bigger opportunity for education, as well.

These are things I value, and I wish more people did, as well. It just seems insane to me to put something so amazingly powerful as a computer in front of you, and never bother to understand it.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[5]: Comment by Kroc
by NxStY on Thu 21st Oct 2010 14:29 in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Kroc"
NxStY Member since:
2005-11-12

"I can't. Nothing in it makes sense to me. Took me 15 minutes to figure out how to start a terminal, and I ended up using Google."

Really?

Open the disk drive > open "applications" > open "utilities"
And there you have the terminal app.

Of course you could just write "terminal" in the search field in any folder.

This really shouldn't take 15 minutes to figure out.

Edited 2010-10-21 14:30 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: Comment by Kroc
by TheGZeus on Thu 21st Oct 2010 14:35 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by Kroc"
TheGZeus Member since:
2010-05-19

I eventually figured it out, as I said.
It's stupid.
Why should I have to open the file manager to launch a program?
No other operating system does that save maybe Amiga clones...

Reply Parent Score: 1