Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 20th Oct 2010 19:02 UTC
Apple So, Apple held its usual autumn press get-together just now, and after a few rather uninspiring ones (to me, at least), they finally managed to blow me away, with the new MacBook Air (especially the 11.6" variant). They also gave a sneak peek at Mac OS X 10.7 Lion, which has... An App Store. An App Store Apple is going to open on Snow Leopard within 90 days.
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RE[6]: Comment by Kroc
by TheGZeus on Thu 21st Oct 2010 06:30 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by Kroc"
TheGZeus
Member since:
2010-05-19

Heh, the weird dude who was literally insisting that I hackintosh my computer was at least 40.
A good number of these people have been tithing since the 128k.

Well, *nix systems have the advantage of allowing you flexible access to the lower levels of the system, and in an approachable, programmatic manner.
Free operating systems give a much bigger opportunity for education, as well.

These are things I value, and I wish more people did, as well. It just seems insane to me to put something so amazingly powerful as a computer in front of you, and never bother to understand it.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[7]: Comment by Kroc
by Neolander on Thu 21st Oct 2010 08:09 in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by Kroc"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

Well, *nix systems have the advantage of allowing you flexible access to the lower levels of the system, and in an approachable, programmatic manner.
Free operating systems give a much bigger opportunity for education, as well.

These are things I value, and I wish more people did, as well. It just seems insane to me to put something so amazingly powerful as a computer in front of you, and never bother to understand it.

Well, half of me agrees and half of me disagrees...

As an OS developer, I'm extremely sensitive to the argument that computer are wonderfully hackable machine and that it's sad to imagine that one day we could, like with cars, become slaves of the vendor as far as their internals are concerned.
But as a computer user, including when writing and testing code... I just want the machine to work like a perfect black box ! I don't care how it works, as long as it works perfectly.

I'd say we should always keep access to the machine at the lowest level, but let those who want a black box ignore what's inside of it.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[8]: Comment by Kroc
by TheGZeus on Thu 21st Oct 2010 13:21 in reply to "RE[7]: Comment by Kroc"
TheGZeus Member since:
2010-05-19

I'd say we should always keep access to the machine at the lowest level, but let those who want a black box ignore what's inside of it.

Hmm.



On my way into deep WI to help my uncle move(why else would I be in WI??), I saw many people on the side of the road with basic flat tires, either waiting in their cars texting/reading/on the phone, or just staring at the flat tire, scratching their head.
That implies to me that they didn't know that step 1 is jack the car up until there's no pressure on the rim...

I want an automagical car, too.
It's not a reality, and I don't think it ever will be.

Hiding the internals doesn't eliminate bugs. It makes Windows.

Also, OS X has inherited BSD's stability, but not its security, and years of marketing have people who love their magical black box unprepared for the viruses that will be coming soon.

I don't see why it has to be one-or-the-other. Ubuntu is Doing It Wrong, but the initial stated goal was nice. I used it for a year until Mark started to do his best to be second-class Steve Jobs.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[7]: Comment by Kroc
by Morgan on Fri 22nd Oct 2010 02:03 in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by Kroc"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

Well, *nix systems have the advantage of allowing you flexible access to the lower levels of the system, and in an approachable, programmatic manner.
Free operating systems give a much bigger opportunity for education, as well.


Okay this has been bugging me for a bit now. OS X is closer to true Unix than Linux is, given its pedigree. Yet when you say *nix you seem to refer only to Linux and not the other Unix-like OSes. From Wikipedia:

A Unix-like (sometimes shortened to UN*X or *nix to circumvent trademark issues) operating system is one that behaves in a manner similar to a Unix system, while not necessarily conforming to or being certified to any version of the Single UNIX Specification.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix-like


Emphasis is mine. I know what you mean, and I'm sure everyone else here does too. I don't disagree with your sentiments; I also feel that Free software is the most flexible and approachable from an experienced user's perspective. But don't forget that OS X is a *nix too, and has all that *nix power behind it as well.

That said, I also feel much more comfortable digging around in the Linux terminal than the OS X one. One of the great things about OS X though, is that you don't have to drill down to that level nearly as often; the OS has a lot of hidden power in the GUI that just takes time to get used to.

And just for the sake of full disclosure, I'm typing this in Windows, because it's the computer I happen to be at right now (just got done playing a Windows game).

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[8]: Comment by Kroc
by TheGZeus on Fri 22nd Oct 2010 02:25 in reply to "RE[7]: Comment by Kroc"
TheGZeus Member since:
2010-05-19

I (grudgingly, look at systemd) include OS X in *nix.

The free OS portion following that is a separate point entirely, and would include non-*nix systems like Syllable and even ReactOS.

I think anything else you would have said would have been the result of misunderstanding again.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[8]: Comment by Kroc
by Neolander on Fri 22nd Oct 2010 04:40 in reply to "RE[7]: Comment by Kroc"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

That said, I also feel much more comfortable digging around in the Linux terminal than the OS X one. One of the great things about OS X though, is that you don't have to drill down to that level nearly as often; the OS has a lot of hidden power in the GUI that just takes time to get used to.

Well, in my experience, most modern desktop linux distros either work out of the box without touching a terminal or won't work unless you really want to spend hours wrestling with them.

I never had to open a terminal on linux except for a few uncommon tasks (coding, anything which requires sudoing because most linux distros don't have a "run as root" menu item in the file explorer, anything which requires launching an alien binary from the internet) for some time now.

Reply Parent Score: 2