Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 20th Oct 2010 19:02 UTC
Apple So, Apple held its usual autumn press get-together just now, and after a few rather uninspiring ones (to me, at least), they finally managed to blow me away, with the new MacBook Air (especially the 11.6" variant). They also gave a sneak peek at Mac OS X 10.7 Lion, which has... An App Store. An App Store Apple is going to open on Snow Leopard within 90 days.
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RE[6]: Really?
by TheGZeus on Thu 21st Oct 2010 18:37 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Really?"
TheGZeus
Member since:
2010-05-19

...No.
You didn't actually read the points I was making.
If you're buying a netbook, it's not going to be the most powerful system you own, if you're smart.

The only point you've made is that using something very portable for watching HD video on an external monitor has its place.

The rest is better solved by using another computer.

Just because you _can_ do something doesn't make it a good idea.


The CPU isn't the only factor in most of these issues.
A battery at all, and the fact that using the CPU to its maximum will greatly reduce the life of said battery.
Small screen.

Total CPU power doesn't change those.
Those make using a netbook for most things that _ALSO_ use alot of CPU power silly.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[7]: Really?
by galvanash on Fri 22nd Oct 2010 05:01 in reply to "RE[6]: Really?"
galvanash Member since:
2006-01-25

I hate to butt in, but the back and forth on this thread...

...No.
You didn't actually read the points I was making.
If you're buying a netbook, it's not going to be the most powerful system you own, if you're smart.


So you are essentially saying that attempts to make netbooks faster are a waste of effort - they are already fast enough because, well they're slow... and thats ok???

....Really?

The only point you've made is that using something very portable for watching HD video on an external monitor has its place.

The rest is better solved by using another computer.


I see. NO, I don't see. Hypothetical: LenoDellple releases a 10" 2 lbs. netbook next week with a 3.2Ghz Core i5 in it with 3 hours of battery life... Are you saying you wouldn't want to see that?

The Air is no i5, but it is much faster than an atom - sure there is a hit in battery life, but 5 hours is still pretty ok. How that can be seen as anything but a good thing boggles my mind.

And sure, Apple isn't the first or only company to stick a Core2Duo in a netbook form factor, but you seem to actually be complaining that they made a faster netbook, well... just because it is faster. WTF?

The CPU isn't the only factor in most of these issues. A battery at all, and the fact that using the CPU to its maximum will greatly reduce the life of said battery. Small screen. Total CPU power doesn't change those. Those make using a netbook for most things that _ALSO_ use alot of CPU power silly.


5 hours on a charge is a little short for a netbook, but not by much... At that level losing say an hour or two of battery life to trade up to a ridiculously faster CPU is going to be a wonderful trade off for a lot of people. Probably most people.

As for the screen... I have personally seen at least 50 posts in the last 3 years where people complained about netbooks precisely because the screen resolution was just too low. Most of them said the same thing, if it wasn't for that single thing, they would consider using one. Well here is one that has fairly decent resolution - its not mind blowing or anything, but it has crossed the threshold into normality.

I have looked at the thing every which way I can think of it find a fault - frankly the only major fault I can honestly point out is the price tag. And I wish the keyboard was backlit... Thats about it. It makes _some_ of the tradeoffs you have to live with on netbooks disappear - not all, but quite a few. I'm honestly considering selling my MBP 13" and replacing it with the 11" air model.

I use the MBP almost strictly for development, and I use it about 98% of the time (I have a few PCs, but mostly for recreational stuff - this is my workhorse). I run Windows on it, not OSX (call me weird, I just like the hardware). The way I see it:

Pros

1. Its **ALOT** smaller and lighter. And a 13" MBP is already pretty damn small and light. This thing is tiny. I hate lugging around a lot of stuff - this counts as +5 pros for me personally.
2. The air is fast enough for what I do. I'm going to take a performance hit for sure, but I can live with it. If I had to do very large builds very often it might be no go, but I mostly do web development, so that isn't an issue for me.
3. The screen is smaller, but it has higher resolution - and it isn't glass so the glare isn't as bad. I actually feel like in this case going from 13" to 11" is an improvement because of the increased resolution. I have good eyesight though, I realize this isn't going to fly with most people...
4. My MBP has an SSD, but it's after market and small (64GB). So at least for me the 128GB is an upgrade.
5. Keyboard is pretty much identical, except for the top row (which doesn't much matter at all). Even steven there.
6. I have used my DVD drive like 3 times, and all 3 times it was to install OS stuff. I don't want or need one - I can function perfectly fine with thumb drives.

CONS:
1. No firewire. Ill miss that, but I can live with USB.
2. Keyboard isn't back lit. That one bothers me more than virtually anything else - I have really grown quite attached to that.
3. Slightly less battery life. But I could live with 3-4 hours to be honest, so while I am marking this as a con, It really doesn't matter to me at all.

And that is comparing to a MBP. Comparing it to most netbooks is like comparing a BMW to a Ford Fiesta... I have an Acer Aspire One that I used for like 20 minutes, its a steaming pile of plastic shit with a keyboard only a 6 year old could love. And the screen... they may as well have used a light-bright for that. Yeah sure, the Air cost about 5x as much, but considering I used the thing for 20 minutes before I gave up on it and gave it to my kid makes it obvious that it was a $300 waste of money.

Good stuff ain't cheap.

ps. As for you suggestion of the Lenova x100e - I have nothing against that machine considering its price tag. The screen is good but not quite as good as the one on the air (from reviews I have seen). It also runs _really_ hot and the battery life is only like 3 hours. That said, for $600 or so... all things considered it is one of the only descent netbooks on the market imo. But I personally am completely addicted to Apple's touchpad - I don't think I could go back at this point. So yeah, $1400 for a netbook is steep - plenty steep, but Ill likely spend it to get what I want. Since I can ebay my MBP for nearly what I paid for it (that is one aspect of Apple hardware that no one else comes close on - resale value) Ill end up paying $300 or so for it.

Edited 2010-10-22 05:15 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[8]: Really?
by TheGZeus on Fri 22nd Oct 2010 16:11 in reply to "RE[7]: Really?"
TheGZeus Member since:
2010-05-19

Whatever, man.

If you're willing to waste your eyesight on that physically small of a screen, and your time looking for a power outlet, that's your prerogative.

I just think your desired workflow is sub-optimal, but then people try to do real programming in perl, too.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[8]: Really?
by Kasi on Fri 22nd Oct 2010 21:40 in reply to "RE[7]: Really?"
Kasi Member since:
2008-07-12

I see. NO, I don't see. Hypothetical: LenoDellple releases a 10" 2 lbs. netbook next week with a 3.2Ghz Core i5 in it with 3 hours of battery life... Are you saying you wouldn't want to see that?


Specifically the people who are interested in battery life and the people who are interested in a performance machine.

The battery people will not be happy with a small portable machine that doesn't browse the web or check their mail fast but dies twice as fast on them.

While the performance people will wonder why the hell they are playing their awesome games or watching 1080p movies on a 720p screen.

The Air is no i5, but it is much faster than an atom - sure there is a hit in battery life, but 5 hours is still pretty ok. How that can be seen as anything but a good thing boggles my mind.


Its fine if all you want is lighter smaller mid-range laptop.

However given the form factor, screen size and resolution I'd say this machine wants to be a very portable device. Most people don't buy a 11" laptop as a desktop replacement or to get in some WoW time on the train. They us it for every computing. Everyday computing tends to suck if after a couple of hours of being on the go - you stop having a functioning computer.

And sure, Apple isn't the first or only company to stick a Core2Duo in a netbook form factor, but you seem to actually be complaining that they made a faster netbook, well... just because it is faster. WTF?


Its not that they made a netbook faster, its that they made a netbook faster while significantly destroying its major strength - long continuous useage while on the go. If they made a faster netbook and still kept the 9hour battery life of the Eee - no one would be complaining. However they didn't do that.

What you are failing to grasp is they didnt revolutionize the portable industry - they merely trying to homogenize it by making every size portable act like a mid-range laptop.

Edited 2010-10-22 21:42 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1