Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 7th Dec 2010 23:27 UTC
Games Sometimes, it's good to reminisce. To look back upon what came before us, in order to better understand what lies ahead. Last week, I bought a piece of computing history I missed out on, a piece I've desperately been wanting to have for a long time now. I bought what is most likely the best selling computer of all time.
Thread beginning with comment 452622
To view parent comment, click here.
To read all comments associated with this story, please click here.
RE: Comment by Neolander
by Raffaele on Wed 8th Dec 2010 09:49 UTC in reply to "Comment by Neolander"
Raffaele
Member since:
2005-11-12

As for whether a PS2 is a computer, well, in my opinion, it's essentially about the ability to reprogram it. You reprogram a video game console each time you put a CD/cartridge in it (somewhat), so it fits in the category. (I don't consider something like a fridge with a Motorola 68K inside a computer, but looking at what the GBA homebrew community did it fits in that category for me)


It is a console, i.e. a computer that is strongly limited to those specific tasks of playing games and aimed at entertainment, or else I can consider also as a personal computer my smartphone each time I put a micro SD card in it, and play new applets, or I can consider as a computer my old Mattel Intellevision (TM) console, or my scientific electronic calculator.

Facts remain that you can't put a cartridge or a CD into your precious "widdle cunsole" and run natively an Office Suite on it... LOL!

You need to dig deeply into its guts and perform dirty tricks with its firmware to make a console running something that barely resembles performing a computer for anyday usage.

That's the difference with consoles and usual personal computers, because "real" personal computers are built from the early design to be flexible and multi purpose.

For example to achieve new Ultra High Definition TV 4320p in a real personal computer, you just need to add a new graphic card that supports it.

But you can't do that into a console, that is designed not to be expanded.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra_High_Definition_Television

Edited 2010-12-08 10:06 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Comment by Neolander
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 8th Dec 2010 10:01 in reply to "RE: Comment by Neolander"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

You need to dig deeply into its guts and perform dirty tricks with its firmware to make a console running something that barely resembles performing a computer for anyday usage.


Uhm, no. There's a sanctioned Linux kit for the Playstation 2, released and sold by Sony. How is that "digging deeply into its guts" and "dirty tricks"? No offence, but last time I checked, the ability to run Linux on the PS2 makes it a hell of a lot more useful than any Amiga.

Same applies to the Dreamcast and Xbox.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Comment by Neolander
by Raffaele on Wed 8th Dec 2010 10:23 in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Neolander"
Raffaele Member since:
2005-11-12

You need to dig deeply into its guts and perform dirty tricks with its firmware to make a console running something that barely resembles performing a computer for anyday usage.


Uhm, no. There's a sanctioned Linux kit for the Playstation 2, released and sold by Sony.
[/q]

It is limited.

You can't access with that Linux distro the real capabilities of all PS2 components and unleash its full power.

Sony has prevented that distro to access full capabilities of PS2.

How is that "digging deeply into its guts" and "dirty tricks"? No offence, but last time I checked, the ability to run Linux on the PS2 makes it a hell of a lot more useful than any Amiga. Same applies to the Dreamcast and Xbox.


That's questionable.

Infacts, as I said previously, modern consoles are full of hardware such as Hard Disks, but you can't expand a console.

It is a product that is born to be with certain characteristics, and you can't expand it just because the manufacturers are planning from the beginning that geeks and core users, and finally the entire market will drop in the trash the old models and purchase a new console unit any time they put new features in it (such as WiFi for example).

Consoles are born to be "usable and disposable" with a high consumption and replacing ratio.

I have nothing versus consoles, but facts says that are just limited computers, and born to play games and sometimes play movies or music.

And by the way, if with that statement you tried to hurt my ego as for the fact I am an amigan, you failed miserably.

However nice try. Better luck next time.

Edited 2010-12-08 10:32 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Neolander
by Neolander on Wed 8th Dec 2010 10:19 in reply to "RE: Comment by Neolander"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

It is a console, i.e. a computer that is strongly limited to those specific tasks of playing games and aimed at entertainment, or else I can consider also as a personal computer my smartphone each time I put a micro SD card in it, and play new applets, or I can consider as a computer my old Mattel Intellevision (TM) console, or my scientific electronic calculator.

Well, I do consider all those devices as computers. They couldn't reasonably be implemented using non-reprogrammable technology. Given sufficiently complicated internals, all fridges can work without a microprocessor inside.

To separate desktops and laptops from a fixed-purpose device like, say, a GBA or a Nokia 3310, I use the notion of general-purpose computer. Those which can be used in nearly any information processing task belong to this category.

Edited 2010-12-08 10:26 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Neolander
by vodoomoth on Wed 8th Dec 2010 14:55 in reply to "RE: Comment by Neolander"
vodoomoth Member since:
2010-03-30

For example to achieve new Ultra High Definition TV 4320p in a real personal computer, you just need to add a new graphic card that supports it.

That's stupid in my opinion. When are they going to stop that race for definition? When the human eye is saturated and we need Terminator's eyes implanted? As a side note to my rant below, let's remember that 16x16 icons are still common.

I am still encoding dvds at 16:9 aspect ratio with a 512 to 576 width. Granted, I'm using x264 and watching the movies on my 1440x900 laptop screen. But this is getting ultimately ludicrous, in the same way that slapping a 12 Mpx sensor on a consumer camera is. What's the point of a poster-size when people still print 15cm-wide photographs? How many people print enlarged photographs? I don't and I've never seen anyone who did. I'd rather have better color, fast storing of pictures, an insanely huge zoom or a flawless unwavering stabilizer! Even better, just usable software for handling picture collections.

Btw, I am still using a 33-cm CRT TV by Daewoo that I bought 10+ years ago (11 by the end of next month) for my 9 square meters student room. That was the cheapest TV I could buy; honestly, it's been amortized long before the one year warranty expired. The plasma TV phase evaded me, as well as the LCD TV. That tv of mine won't die so the 3D TV thing might evade me as well, just like the LedTV, the HDTV and the UHDTV: "The ultimate goal is for UHDTV to be available in domestic homes, though the timeframe for this happening varies between 2016 to 2020". What? Six to ten years from now? I don't understand this world.

Edited 2010-12-08 14:57 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Comment by Neolander
by Raffaele on Wed 8th Dec 2010 17:22 in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Neolander"
Raffaele Member since:
2005-11-12

For example to achieve new Ultra High Definition TV 4320p in a real personal computer, you just need to add a new graphic card that supports it.


That's stupid in my opinion. When are they going to stop that race for definition? When the human eye is saturated and we need Terminator's eyes implanted?

[MEGACUT]



I agree.

The long race for higher definition TV is just a market move to let people spend their money in new TV sets and drop the old ones.

(It is called "consumism", you know.)

But that fits perfectly the example.

Buy new graphic cards with HDTV or UWTV and you could adapt your personal computer to new standard market.

Buy a console and you could run only at that graphic resolutions that it was built the video-chipset embedded into your current model release.

If another model of console was was released with more graphic capabilities, then you are forced to purchase it to obtain the new graphic resolutions, because there is no way to upgrade the old one console...

Then what you can do with your obsolete console?

You have many choices... You could continue using it until it melts down, you could drop your ancient console and put it in garage/attic, or sell it, make it a gift to some nephews/cousins/little brothers or put it in the garbage. ;)

Edited 2010-12-08 17:27 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2