Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 16th Dec 2010 22:01 UTC, submitted by Idefix
Opera Software Opera 11 has been released. "Tab stacking is a better way to organize your open tabs. Simply drag one tab on top of another to create a stack. Extensions help you personalize your browser and enhance what Opera can do. With the flick of your wrist, mouse gestures let you navigate back and forwards, open new pages, close tabs and so much more. In Opera 11, you now have a handy visual guide to the wonders of mouse gestures. We changed the address bar, so you can make better sense of the security levels of the sites you visit. Opera 11 now displays a clear badge indicating the security level and allowing immediate, one-click access to security and trust information about the site."
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Comment by Kroc
by Kroc on Thu 16th Dec 2010 22:39 UTC
Kroc
Member since:
2005-11-10

Very polished, very slick; but the only way I could think about the browser market Opera finds themselves in now is "why?" What massively distinguishing feature does Opera have to claw that marketshare up? Firefox 1.0 vs IE6—clear as day. Opera 11 vs Firefox 4? Personal preference more than anything.

Why is it that Chrome can make such rapid inroads with developers / techs, and yet Opera is not? This is a predicament. Opera needs something much, much more radical.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by Kroc
by joekiser on Thu 16th Dec 2010 23:27 in reply to "Comment by Kroc"
joekiser Member since:
2005-06-30

Just to be cool I guess. Opera 10.x was garbage on anything not named Windows. Any good innovation made by Opera devs is quickly emulated by Chromium/Firefox.

The best product that Opera has at this point is Fastmail.fm.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Comment by Kroc
by flanque on Fri 17th Dec 2010 01:38 in reply to "RE: Comment by Kroc"
flanque Member since:
2005-12-15

Opera Mini is pretty good, particulary on the Symbian systems where there aren't many alternatives.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Kroc
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Fri 17th Dec 2010 07:04 in reply to "RE: Comment by Kroc"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Disagree. Opera 10 was pretty good on Fedora Linux anyway. I've always thought the developer tools were odd on Opera, and they really still are. Chrome's is pretty useful, although with its quirks as well.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Comment by Kroc
by stabbyjones on Thu 16th Dec 2010 23:47 in reply to "Comment by Kroc"
stabbyjones Member since:
2008-04-15

Opera doesn't control search across the world and doesn't have bucketloads of cash?

I try and use Opera every release (I was full time from v6-9) but it just isn't as far ahead of the pack as it used to be.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE: Comment by Kroc
by Lennie on Fri 17th Dec 2010 00:00 in reply to "Comment by Kroc"
Lennie Member since:
2007-09-22

Easy, Chrome has what people are looking for:

- some powerusers: speed (even before Firefox 4 is being released) and security

(other powerusers want to use certain addons which Chrome does not have)

- 'stupid users': brandrecognition, people have no idea what a browser is, but they download the program because it came from Google and not some other company they never heared of

Google has been doing a lot of advertisements and links on the google search pages and this works.

Edited 2010-12-17 00:01 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE: Comment by Kroc
by ven- on Fri 17th Dec 2010 00:17 in reply to "Comment by Kroc"
ven- Member since:
2009-08-24

I don't want to bash Opera here but it has a lot of small quirks(/bugs?) that can make the first experience pretty unpleasant. Menues are a good example of this. Sub menus won't open if other sub menus still show which is very annoying. This alone can make you dismiss the whole browser and as long as Opera doesn't fix these "anomalies" they don't even stand a chance.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Comment by Kroc
by Neolander on Fri 17th Dec 2010 04:23 in reply to "Comment by Kroc"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

Myself, I use it because it's fast (like the responsiveness of the UI especially), has a clean yet powerful interface, works reasonably well, and does not come from a big corporation.

Firefox 4 pre-releases and IE9 still feel very slow facing Opera. If I was to say why, I'd argue it's because of slow load times that give a bad first impression, unresponsive UI, choppy scrolling and window resizing (GPU-rendered UIs seem to have this annoying side-effect apart from that of wasting power. Can someone remember me why I need them ?), and insufficient caching.

About the interface, just have a look at this :
http://img594.imageshack.us/i/capturemo.png/
* Apart from the RSS button, I regularly use all buttons of Opera's interface interface, and I can tell what they're all for. I don't need nor want a single more. Since all controls are in a single place (except the tab trash), it's easier to access them than with the new trend of putting the reload button on the right of the address bar.
* Firefox 4's UI literally WASTES screen space compared to this, and not to do much more. My "back" button is big enough, no need to enlarge it, thanks. I don't need this "bookmark" button, if I want a bookmark I type its name in the address bar or use the menu (which feels messy in FF4 in my opinion btw) in the few occasions where I don't remember about it. Panorama... Well... Let's just say that I don't like it.
* IE9's interface is relatively clean, but not powerful. I use extensively both tabs and the address bar, so I don't like having to make a choice between them. The menus' usage is far from obvious at first look, and at second look you wonder why they made three buttons considering the frequency at which you click each of them in normal browser use. Microsoft seem to have gone in a "my back button is bigger" contest with Mozilla, resulting in a rendering of the bottom of it which is simply awful. They made a reload AND a stop button, being alone to realize that it's wasting space needlessly, and put them on the right of the address bar too. The "add tab" button does not give you a single clue about what it's going to do. And my last gripe with IE9's UI, which is not shown in this screenshot, is its notification system : it is way too weak visually, and to make things worse they have decided to put it a the botton of the browser instead of the top, where the attention of the user is when he looks for some control to use. Hate it.

Funny that while some years ago I disliked Opera's UI a lot for being bloated and unclear, I now feel that it's Firefox, my previous model in this regard, which is messy. Guess the Opera UI team has done its homework, after all.

Being pre-releases, FF4 and IE9 obviously don't work well. Opera 10 has a few rendering issues (and does not let me resize memo controls, grrrrrrrrrrrrrr...), but a bit of scrolling is generally all it takes to get rid of them.

Hope this helps.

Edited 2010-12-17 04:36 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Comment by Kroc
by Neolander on Fri 17th Dec 2010 04:56 in reply to "RE: Comment by Kroc"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

Well, tried this release, and I'm going to downgrade to Opera 10.6. In a few minutes of toying, I've already seen :
-The installer displaying lots of error messages and UAC prompts instead of just doing its job
-A page becoming unresponsive, requiring a refresh before links work
-Choppy scrolling
-A silly "security" button in my address bar which is present even when it has nothing to say and which there's no obvious way to remove (I know I shouldn't put my credit card number everywhere on the web, I don't need a nanny, thanks)

That's enough. Hoping Opera 12 will be more polished.

Edited 2010-12-17 05:05 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Comment by Kroc
by Liquidator on Fri 17th Dec 2010 07:13 in reply to "Comment by Kroc"
Liquidator Member since:
2007-03-04

I can't use a browser that doesn't have a contextual menu to input customized text into input fields.

Also, I love the way things are integrated into Opera. It's just overall better. The only downside is the lack of per-tab processes.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: Comment by Kroc
by kvarbanov on Fri 17th Dec 2010 08:50 in reply to "Comment by Kroc"
kvarbanov Member since:
2008-06-16

For example ? Do you have an idea what more to be put inside a browser ? A kitchen sink maybe, or a toaster ? I guess those are the only things that are missing from Opera and the rest of the browsers currently. There's a torrent client, various extensions, mail and RSS client, sync, upload servers, turbo mode, sandbox, flashblock, spellchecker, gestures, debugging, the list could go on forever. Opera isn't bad at all, it just needs more brand recognition - but yeah, they are not Google. Chrome isn't bad, too, but it's being pushed around every single corner you can think of, and inevitably ends up installed on your system. I tried the new Opera 11 on my Linux workstation, and I'm totally satisfied with the result. Don't be too harsh on them, these guys own most of the innovations wee see in today's browsers.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Kroc
by Kroc on Fri 17th Dec 2010 09:55 in reply to "RE: Comment by Kroc"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

I’m not being hard on them. It’s a good product and a genuine question. Browsers take off because they capture developers and power users first. Opera needs to invest more in web developer education tools and material to draw in developers to use Opera first. Dragonfly is no Firebug, not even close, and the Internet could do with an up to date HTML5 / CSS3 / JS documentation, Mozilla’s site is full of holes and badly maintained.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Comment by Kroc
by spinnekopje on Fri 17th Dec 2010 10:35 in reply to "Comment by Kroc"
spinnekopje Member since:
2008-11-29

but the only way I could think about the browser market Opera finds themselves in now is "why?" What massively distinguishing feature does Opera have to claw that marketshare up?


Why firefox? why chrome? they haven't got any massively distinguishing features either.
All browsers have their pros and cons. Fact is that opera just works the best on my system for the things I want to do.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Comment by Kroc
by helf on Fri 17th Dec 2010 17:59 in reply to "Comment by Kroc"
helf Member since:
2005-07-06

As others have stated, the number 1 reason I can see is brand recognition. People also tell me speed and stability but on any reasonably fast computer (c2d/phenom + ) there is not much difference unless you are running insanely intensive JS web apps.

And as for stability? Ha. It might be stable for a lot of people, but I've had it crash as many times as FF. It also sucks up an amazing amount of ram compared to other browsers in my experience and the download manager is non-existant. Which is annoying.

I really can't see any reason to switch to chrome from FF :p And its quick launching is also moot on a system with an SSD. FF launches quickly too after the OS caches it ;)

My dad likes Chrome a lot, more power to him, I say. I don't really care what people use, but the Chrome fanboys are worse than the FF fanboys of olde.

Reply Parent Score: 2