Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 14th Mar 2011 23:22 UTC
In the News "A major new report from a consortium of academic researchers concludes that media piracy can't be stopped through 'three strikes' Internet disconnections, Web censorship, more police powers, higher statutory damages, or tougher criminal penalties. That's because the piracy of movies, music, video games, and software is 'better described as a global pricing problem'. And the only way to solve it is by changing the price."
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generation 'entitlement'
by bram on Tue 15th Mar 2011 01:09 UTC
bram
Member since:
2009-04-03

Ugh... the reasoning of generation 'entitlement' again.
From the article:

When legitimate CDs, DVDs, and computer software are five to ten times higher (relative to local incomes) than they are in the US and Europe, simply ratcheting up copyright enforcement won't do enough to fix the problem.

So what... a ferrari sports car is ten times more expensive in poor countries relative to income. Does that mean that the ferrari is incorrectly priced?

Screw this line of reasoning that you should be entitled to buy stuff at the price point you can afford. If you can't afford it, you can't afford it. End of story.

Why does OSnews keep putting the problem with the producers, and portray the consumers (pirates included) as the victims here?

No, you're not entitled to watch any blockbuster movie you fancy at a price point of your liking. You're not entitled anything at all other than your basic human rights, which does not include affordable consumption of hollywood produce.

Bram

Reply Score: -2

RE: generation 'entitlement'
by _txf_ on Tue 15th Mar 2011 01:57 in reply to "generation 'entitlement'"
_txf_ Member since:
2008-03-17

So what... a ferrari sports car is ten times more expensive in poor countries relative to income. Does that mean that the ferrari is incorrectly priced?


In poorer countries there is a far greater disparity between the rich and the poor. The rich in such countries are just as rich as any person that can afford a Ferrari.

But these are practical solutions. In poorer countries land/house etc prices are lower otherwise everybody would be homeless, why not consumer media?

Basically you're saying "F**k you, you don't earn enough so piss off"...and so they do...straight to piracy. The article points out due to unfair pricing no amount of beating with the stick is going to reduce piracy; they need to start using carrots too.

You're saying because they are poorer then they shouldn't enjoy the some of the life that you have?

Edited 2011-03-15 02:02 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE: generation 'entitlement'
by gnemmi on Tue 15th Mar 2011 02:08 in reply to "generation 'entitlement'"
gnemmi Member since:
2006-08-17

So what... a ferrari sports car is ten times more expensive in poor countries relative to income. Does that mean that the ferrari is incorrectly priced?


That logic doesn´t apply to "luxury" items, wich by the way, are even taxed differently ...

... and just in case you want to know, make Ferraris ten times more expensive in the states and all you´ll get will be: a huge drop in Ferrari´s selling numbers.

Screw this line of reasoning that you should be entitled to buy stuff at the price point you can afford. If you can't afford it, you can't afford it. End of story.


... apparently it is not the end ... it seems like ppl doesn´t end it in there, they just buy pirated copies, or get them via p2p ...

Why does OSnews keep putting the problem with the producers, and portray the consumers (pirates included) as the victims here?


Technological improvemens changing ppl life, changing markets, businnes models, businnes strategies ... ?

idk .. maybe when the light bulb got invented, candle makers went down in flames ...

No, you're not entitled to watch any blockbuster movie you fancy at a price point of your liking.


It appears to be that we are past the times of "entitlements" ...

You're not entitled anything at all other than your basic human rights, which does not include affordable consumption of hollywood produce.


Seems it doesn´t work like that anymore ...

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: generation 'entitlement'
by malxau on Tue 15th Mar 2011 07:51 in reply to "generation 'entitlement'"
malxau Member since:
2005-12-04

So what... a ferrari sports car is ten times more expensive in poor countries relative to income. Does that mean that the ferrari is incorrectly priced?

Screw this line of reasoning that you should be entitled to buy stuff at the price point you can afford. If you can't afford it, you can't afford it. End of story.


The difference between Ferrari and IP is that in the former case marginal costs (the cost to build the car) is high. Selling it cheaply means making a loss. In the case of IP, marginal costs are low, fixed costs are high. Selling it cheaply means revenue for the creators - revenue that would not otherwise exist. This argument isn't saying people should get whatever they want, whenever they want, for whatever they want - it's saying that producers are leaving money on the table by not selling products in a significant fraction of the world.

Reply Parent Score: 8

RE: generation 'entitlement'
by arpan on Tue 15th Mar 2011 09:52 in reply to "generation 'entitlement'"
arpan Member since:
2006-07-30

So what... a ferrari sports car is ten times more expensive in poor countries relative to income. Does that mean that the ferrari is incorrectly priced?


Yes, a ferrari sports car is very expensive. Which is why you never see Ferraris on the road here in India. Also the same reason that the Nano ($2000 car) was invented. So that there would be a car that people can afford.

No one is saying that piracy is right. The researcher is saying that if the movie studios want to make money, they are going to have to adjust price as per the income. If they don't, no one will buy their product, because they just can't afford it.

Reply Parent Score: 5

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Yes, a ferrari sports car is very expensive. Which is why you never see Ferraris on the road here in India. Also the same reason that the Nano ($2000 car) was invented. So that there would be a car that people can afford.


You mean the car industry knows you can't set global prices and global vehicles, and that you need to make products tailored towards local circumstances?

Perish the thought.

Reply Parent Score: 3

unclefester Member since:
2007-01-13

Yes, a ferrari sports car is very expensive. Which is why you never see Ferraris on the road here in India.

This is simply because Indian roads are totally unsuitable for Ferrari's. Rich Indians simply spend their money on other luxuries.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: generation 'entitlement'
by Damnshock on Tue 15th Mar 2011 10:46 in reply to "generation 'entitlement'"
Damnshock Member since:
2006-09-15


Screw this line of reasoning that you should be entitled to buy stuff at the price point you can afford. If you can't afford it, you can't afford it. End of story.

No, you're not entitled to watch any blockbuster movie you fancy at a price point of your liking. You're not entitled anything at all other than your basic human rights, which does not include affordable consumption of hollywood produce.


I kinda agree with your thinking although we must not forget that people do not think as you do. In a perfect world it would be as you say and the world would respect your pricing and don't buy the product if they can afford it. Wanna know what? that's not *reality*.

However, you must agree that they would sell much more copies if they priced things differently. 30€ for a dvd won't get you any sales at all in India. 1-2€ will. Don't you agree?

Anyway, piracy is not only about pricing. I'll explain my case:

I live in Barcelona which is among the richest cities in Europe (and in Spain) and my friends and I, although not rich, are far from "poor" people (I'm probably the one that earns the lowest) and we could easily pay for a movie, software or whatever. The thing is that I'm the only one that does so. And it's not only my friends: it's *everybody*.

There is an expression in spanish that explains this thinking: "tonto el último" which is "silly the last one". It's normal here to get things for free as long as authorities/whoever don't catch you and,in fact, most people laugh at me when they realize I *want* to pay for the things I consume. You know, I believe it the right thing to do: you get something in exchange for money. People think "if I can get it for free... why would I pay?" and the ridiculous thing is that their excuse is: they are big companies, they won't die because of me not paying for the product. "What if everybody things as you do" I always ask: "luckily for me, not everybody does" is the usual answer...

This makes me sad as I live in a society that actually do not believe in itself ;)

And the older I get the worse the situation becomes.

So, in my humble opinion, piracy is *NOT* about pricing rather than people's respect for the work of others.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: generation 'entitlement'
by unclefester on Tue 15th Mar 2011 11:54 in reply to "generation 'entitlement'"
unclefester Member since:
2007-01-13

Ferrari's (and all other supercars) are sold at far less than the real cost of development and manufacture. Supercars are really just technology testbeds for far more humble FIATs and Volkswagens.

Edited 2011-03-15 12:04 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: generation 'entitlement'
by Soulbender on Tue 15th Mar 2011 13:16 in reply to "generation 'entitlement'"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Screw this line of reasoning that you should be entitled to buy stuff at the price point you can afford. If you can't afford it, you can't afford it. End of story.


No-one is trying to excuse piracy. The fact of the matter is, if a DVD cost 20-25% of your monthly salary you're not going to buy it. Either you avoid the product or you're going to pirate it. If you want to sell to these people you need to lower your price. End of story.

You're not entitled anything at all other than your basic human rights,


Technically, making a profit isn't a human right either.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE: generation 'entitlement'
by kaiwai on Tue 15th Mar 2011 13:33 in reply to "generation 'entitlement'"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

No one is stating that the ends (getting something cheaper) justify the means (piracy) but to simply put your head in the sand and ignoring the reasons behind decisions people make - you're simply not living in reality.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: generation 'entitlement'
by ebasconp on Tue 15th Mar 2011 14:52 in reply to "generation 'entitlement'"
ebasconp Member since:
2006-05-09

Screw this line of reasoning that you should be entitled to buy stuff at the price point you can afford. If you can't afford it, you can't afford it. End of story.


You have such line of thinking because, ok, you live in a first world country where you can afford anything you need.

Ok, I cannot afford a Ferrari, but I can afford a brazilian Volkswagen (that is what I actually have); but as I said in other comment thread, if I would be a graphical designer, I would have to buy Photoshop, Illustrator, Premiere, etc. etc. and I simply could not afford it and I would have to buy pirated copies.

You could argue that I could buy Pixelmator, or use Paint.NET or the Gimp, but though I am a fan of such products, I do not know if a "pro" would be happy with them.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: generation 'entitlement'
by wannabe geek on Tue 15th Mar 2011 18:20 in reply to "generation 'entitlement'"
wannabe geek Member since:
2006-09-27

I'm strongly opposed to so-called "intellectual property" by principle, because I think it amounts to a legal monopoly and, as such, a violation of physical property of monopoly breakers. Make no mistake, some of the most radical defenders of private property, the market and the right of rich people to keep every cent they have earned are also against at least some forms of "IP". Speaking of entitlements, who said an artist or engineer is entitled to tell others (who didn't sign a contract with him) how to use their property just because they are using it in a way he thought of first? For instance, you overheard a tune, or you were told a story, and you write your own variant. Same thing for an invention. I know, most actual piracy involves something like a contract violation by one customer (the ripper), but of course contracts are not binding for third parties, and IP is not based on contract law.

Also, not all IP is the same; for instance, copyright only restricts the right to copy, not independent invention, like patents do. This sure makes copyright less vicious, but since it also covers modified copies, once you have heard of a tune or a movie, you can be accused of copying it just for writing something vaguely similar.

Nonetheless, I agree with much of your post. No one is entitled to getting something from others just because they want it badly (they "need" it), and the money you earned in honest trade is yours, no matter how rich you already are. I'm all for changing the law and letting everyone play by the new rules, not for looking the other side when the victim is rich.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: generation 'entitlement'
by bert64 on Tue 15th Mar 2011 20:47 in reply to "generation 'entitlement'"
bert64 Member since:
2007-04-23


So what... a ferrari sports car is ten times more expensive in poor countries relative to income. Does that mean that the ferrari is incorrectly priced?


How much does it cost you to build a functional copy of a Ferrari sports car? Considering the complexity of a modern car, especially a high performance or luxury car, it would probably cost you considerably more to build your own.
And even if you did build a clone ferrari, you would still need to fuel it... Performance cars are generally not very cheap to fuel.

Piracy and counterfeiting is only a problem for goods which are ridiculously priced relative to their production cost, why do designer clothes cost so much more than generic mass produced clothes for instance? They're made with the same materials, in the same chinese sweat shops...

Reply Parent Score: 2