Linked by Hadrien Grasland on Fri 27th May 2011 11:34 UTC
General Development After having an interesting discussion with Brendan on the topic of deadlocks in threaded and asynchronous event handling systems (see the comments on this blog post), I just had something to ask to the developers on OSnews: could you live without blocking API calls? Could you work with APIs where lengthy tasks like writing to a file, sending a signal, doing network I/O, etc is done in a nonblocking fashion, with only callbacks as a mechanism to return results and notify your software when an operation is done?
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RE[5]: Mutex-less computing
by Alfman on Tue 31st May 2011 00:26 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Mutex-less computing"
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"I am basing myself off wikipedia as of right now, and I do not see it saying that CAS blocks at the hardware level. In fact, it does say that CAS is unsafe -- it does not even try to block the content being overwritten twice!"

cmpxchg -- no lock
lock cmpxchg -- explicit lock
xchg -- implied lock

cmpxchg (without lock) is only multithread safe on a single processor (or perhaps a process with affinity set).

You had said:
"...On the other hand, these kinds of atomics, the compare-and-swap and the LL/SC..."

On x86, the cmpxchg instruction must have LOCK asserted in order to be atomic, and I think the wikipedia article agrees.

There are no LL/SC opcodes on x86, and I cannot comment on them.

"The LL/SC is even better -- it does that and avoids ABA, at the slight cost of speed."

The ABA problem can be solved by using 64bit cmpxchg on 32bit pointers, such that that the cmp can make sure that changes we intend to apply are still valid at the point of execution for cmpxchg.

I'd need to look up code to remember the details.

"The (b) about interrupts is because atomics are usually done on single cores by simply disabling interrupts for the transaction. The CAS is not much faster than that case, but scales a lot better for the many-cores case."

Ok, I see. On a preemptive single processor system, cli can provide atomicity (assuming cpu ring-0).

"Can you please clarify? I am still of the impression that this CAS runs in one instruction cycle, not at bus speed due to a tiny mutex."

This is true without the lock prefix. Lock is what causes it to stall.

The x86 cache coherency model is complicated, but I believe this is what could happen without a lock.

CPU A - read mem X into cache
CPU B - read mem X into cache

mem X = 10
CPU A cache X = 10/clean
CPU B cache X = 10/clean

CPU A - cmpxchg (cmp = 10 ok, set X=13)
CPU B - cmpxchg (cmp = 10 ok, set X=15)

mem X = 13 or 15? (which got there last?)
CPU A cache X = 13/dirty or 15/clean
CPU B cache X = 15/dirty or 13/clean

Since the cache is operating behind the scenes independently from the processing circuitry, it provides no guaranties that the initial value read is still current at the time of the write.

Therefor, without a lock, the atomicity of one of the cmpxchg instructions is broken.

"Or else it would be kind of defeating the point of such an invention."

I'd argue that a slow lock is still better than no lock at all. And "slow" is relative, accessing a shared resource is inherently a serial operation which cannot be parallelized - I don't know how reasonable it is to expect an SMP system to do it for free.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: Mutex-less computing
by xiaokj on Tue 31st May 2011 02:33 in reply to "RE[5]: Mutex-less computing"
xiaokj Member since:


Thanks for the much needed clarification!

Clearly, the atomicity without locking can only happen if the process has processor affinity. Nevertheless, this may be a worthwhile handicap given the multitude of cores we have these days!

Reply Parent Score: 2