Linked by Kaj de Vos on Wed 15th Jun 2011 08:23 UTC
Syllable, AtheOS The Syllable project has released a live CD for Syllable Desktop 0.6.6. It has been a long time since the last live CD, so Syllable 0.6.5 was skipped. The creator of the original live CD left the project, without releasing the build scripts. Further it turned out that a needed patch to Syllable wasn't available, either, so the project had to create a whole new live CD, including a modified kernel. Also, some eighty SDL programs were recently ported to Syllable (video of the Power Manga game).
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Comment by cipri
by cipri on Thu 16th Jun 2011 10:44 UTC
cipri
Member since:
2007-02-15

Syllable is dead, and kaj killed it. It's that simple.
Syllables has no c/c++ active develoopers.
All are gone, even their leader vanders. Some are still there but not being really active.
If you look at their source code commits, you will be surprized, to see that months are passing away without one single write commit! In other month they have just a few write commits, with quite unsignificant stuff.

The most work they do, is poring command line stuff, which in most stuff compiles without problems (or with little adjustments) just by typing ./configure ; make; make install;
And then they write a news about it sayinb: "the syllable team ported xyz".

I guess Kaj is trying to use more and more scripting stuff in syllable, because his c++ abilites are as good as non-existent.

Since more than 2 years, they didnt release any new version, and they are even not even close to a new release. Their latest "development build" is also 1.5 years old.

They have such "intelligent" user, which think that you if you compile a lot of SDL games/applications you help syllable a lot.

If you browser their forums you will notice the level of intelligence of their users. They are comedians, which dont see that the progress made by syllable in the last years, is nearly zero.
How can somebody that blind and spend time with a project that is stagnant like that.
Even FreeDOS has a lot more potential.

The idea of kaj is to tell the users a lot of stories (plans for future) and making them believe that syllable will be great in future.

Browser their forums, and you will have a lot to laugh.

In their forum, I also saw that Kaj declares that Vanders is not the leader anymore. I guess that means, that now he is the leader.
To make an analogy, this situation is like:
There is an plane (airbus), and the captian used to parachute to leave the plane, and now the stewardess is flying the plane.

It's really like that. Kaj, has no idea about kernel development, or drivers, or filesystems or app_server. He just knows how to use scripting languages. But he doesnt understand that you can develop an OS just using scripting languages.

Kaj, many congratuation that now you are the kind-of-syllable like I anticipated many years ago.
Now you are not anymore in the lucky position, that others write the code and you just merge their code/patches, and tell us how great you are and how much you contributed.
Now since you are the leader, we see how great you are. Nearly 0 progress since most of the developers left.
You are even not able to copy from haiku (even there have been attempts), not to speak about own development.

Congratulations to the king-of-syllable, your only problem is just, that now you dont have anymore people to control, now you have to do it by yourself. And we see the results.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by cipri
by pandronic on Thu 16th Jun 2011 11:45 in reply to "Comment by cipri"
pandronic Member since:
2006-05-18

What is (was) your position in the Syllable project? And if the problems are as you describe them, what solutions do you offer?

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE: Comment by cipri
by -pekr- on Thu 16th Jun 2011 13:57 in reply to "Comment by cipri"
-pekr- Member since:
2006-03-28

Hmm, in most cases I stay back from personal comments, but something has to be said to your attitude. Oh boy, what an idiotic comment you made? I know Kaj from the REBOL world, I know him for many years, and you're just trying to make him look bad. Comment's like yours should be smashed from the planet Earth. While you try to look like I-am-a-king, you don't provide any solution, suggestion, you just ridicule others. The project might be dead, or almost dead, but if there is any interest of even a single person to develop anything, noone should dismiss such an effort. Anyone is free to express his/her opinion about the possible success of the project, but the way you do it, is just - idiotic.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Comment by cipri
by chamel on Fri 17th Jun 2011 14:18 in reply to "Comment by cipri"
chamel Member since:
2011-06-17

Mostly you are right. Except for your attitude to Kaj which is quiet aggressive. I don't like Kaj too. Development of Syllable OS is discussed in private, at AltMe, that is why nobody knows what is going on. I was trying to get involved with development, but dealing with people, who don't understand what is open source and what is important when developing OS, is frustrating and discourages from being involved.
The only solution is to FORK from Syllable and create healthy development of OS, instead of promoting scripting language.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Comment by cipri
by cipri on Fri 17th Jun 2011 18:42 in reply to "RE: Comment by cipri"
cipri Member since:
2007-02-15

I admit, that perhaps I should have tried to express myself less impulsive. But mostly I tried to make funny comparisions.
I know you spent also quite some time with syllable too, and I know it's not that easy to forget and to turn completely away (that's why I also use to take a look from time to time at the syllable forums). But sadly fact is, syllable has a lot of bugs and short commings (not without reason there is no newer compiler on syllable, and also not a newer development build. Their latest development build will became in a few month, 2 years old).
A few years ago, I would have opted for a fork. Today the situation is completely different. Haiku, has nearly everything that syllable wished to have. In a few days Haiku Alpha 3 should appear, and it brings a lot of improvements. Haiku is a lot more feature complete and developing on Haiku is also easier (less buggy api, and if there are bugs, in most cases, they are solved very soon by the devs).
Haiku has a bunch of highly professional developers (alexd, ingo, stippi, mmrl, and many more). Additional, Haiku has also quite a lot of money, which is spent of paying developers. There are so many advantages with Haiku, that's why I could not recommand anybody to fork syllable. Why fork syllable if you can fork haiku, which is a lot more easy to develop and maintain and a lot more advanced than syllable.
A syllable fork would be very difficult to do, because "builder" is in a quite obsolet state, and it would need to be totally replaced, and that would imply a lot of work. On the other Haiku is trivial fork.
But since the Haiku devs are doing a great job, there is no real reason for a fork.

Related to Altme:
I guess Kaj likes Altme (even if it's nor working on syllable), because everything is closed. Like that he can give the impressiont to people that there are a lot of syllable developers, but we dont see them because they are hidden in altme. I guess that's the reason, why they use Altme, just to hide their penibel situation. Another reason could be, that they want to hide what they talk related to developement, because it would be clear to people that they mostly have just "academic/informal discussions" and that nothing real is done. At least they could have posted the AltMe logs, if they didnt intend to hide. But no, they are really hiding, in my opinion.

Reply Parent Score: 1

wave
by anonymkous8756 on Sun 19th Jun 2011 02:54 in reply to "Comment by cipri"
anonymkous8756 Member since:
2011-06-19

I'm trying to solve some problems, there exist more than 240 makefiles, the API is poorly documented, the kernel, also has a poor documentation. If someone wants to clean a little all that mess, i've created a google code project with my effort in to make a better documentation (really, i have no hope, but a lot of energy)
http://code.google.com/p/wave-os/

Reply Parent Score: 1

not a fork
by anonymkous8756 on Sun 19th Jun 2011 23:45 in reply to "wave"
anonymkous8756 Member since:
2011-06-19

The very first i want to do is to update the building script, create.sh, because i not just want to build the whole system in a straightforward way, but also to assemble the whole iso and then burn first a copy of the new iso and then an installation cd.

Reply Parent Score: 1

almost a fork
by anonymkous8756 on Sun 19th Jun 2011 23:55 in reply to "wave"
anonymkous8756 Member since:
2011-06-19

No new code, no fork, just more documentation and a clean sh build script without ruby, rebol crap (nothing personal about rebol, just want a better compile way)

Reply Parent Score: 1