Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 22nd Aug 2011 21:19 UTC
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless Last week, HP killed its webOS devices unit. Over the weekend, the company slashed the prices on the TouchPad. The result? The TouchPad sold out completely in a matter of hours. This confirms what I've been hearing from friends and family: "I'd love a tablet, but I'm not paying laptop money for one."
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RE[9]: Interesting experiment
by Windows Sucks on Tue 23rd Aug 2011 22:57 UTC in reply to "RE[8]: Interesting experiment"
Windows Sucks
Member since:
2005-11-10

""Yes but it's still the best selling Music device on earth. No other music player ever caught it."
[snip]
I mean really? Tape players and iPods are not the same last time I looked?

A tape player is a type of device, while an Ipod is merely a brand -- there are many other brands of digital music players.

And the last time I looked, Sony Walkmans were "music devices" and "music players."

By the way, the Walkman has had many iterations since 1978. The latest ones are digital.


Let me change the statement. "The iPod is BY FAR the best selling DIGITAL music device on earth. Tape decks not included." lol

I wouldn't be so sure about the "BY FAR" part as other digital music players are outselling Ipods in some countries.

Please endeavor to get the declarations correct when they are first made.

Nevertheless, the Sony Walkman is the best selling music device on Earth, not the Ipod. And that fact stands in spite of years of Apple's intense Ipod marketing and blanket advertising.

Sorry fanboys.
"

Ok, ok. LOL! It's silly but I am gonna bite cause what you said makes no sense.

1. The WALKMAN is a brand just like the IPOD is a brand. Ok?

2. According to you the walkman has sold: 340 million since 1979? And Apple has sold 297 million iPods as of Dec 2010. So Apple in 10 years (IPod came out in 2001) has sold all most as many iPods as Sony has sold walkmans in 30 plus years??? So in 1/3 the time. Hummmmm. Lets do a little math.

Apple has been selling at a clip of about 30 million a year (297 / 10)

Sony has been selling at a clip of about 11 million a year (340 / 30)

And you want to sit here and tell me which is more popular???

Ok I don't know about you but the math tells me that the iPod is and has been way more popular in it's life span. And since the "iPod" is a brand name I could stretch it and say that the brand name is also included in all iPhones and all iPads since all have the functionality of an iPod which Apple loves to point out. But I am not going to even kill you with that, I am going to go with one more nugget.

Look at sales of Walkmans since 2001 head to head with the iPod? No competition. The only thing the Walkman has on the iPod is longevity. That is the only reason there are more Walkmans sold then there are iPods. The only reason. Ummm and on that note that would make my original declaration correct.

Oh and while i am at it us "Fanboys" can rest confident in a few facts:

No music player will EVER sell like the iPod.
No Tablet will sell like iPad.
No Smartphone will sell like the iPhone.
No laptop will sell like the Mac Book Air.

Those are facts us "fanboys" will be able to sit and chew on for a LONG time to come! A very long time to come.

Last note: yes ANYTHING popular can't be popular in all places at all times. So I am sure that the iPod is out sold some place on earth, Just like there is some place on earth where Macs outsell Windows machines. (At colleges for instance) Or a search engine is more popular then Google (Like in China) but over all the iPod has 60 plus percent of the market, its a good bit over HALF of the market so its BY FAR the most popular music device on earth. There is nothing factually wrong with that statement. At least till it's market share falls under 50% . LOL!

(Added Last note. missed what you said about By Far)

Edited 2011-08-23 23:08 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[10]: Interesting experiment
by tupp on Wed 24th Aug 2011 06:58 in reply to "RE[9]: Interesting experiment"
tupp Member since:
2006-11-12

Ok, ok. LOL! It's silly but I am gonna bite cause what you said makes no sense.

Okay. We shall see who is making no sense.


1. The WALKMAN is a brand just like the IPOD is a brand. Ok?

Right. So what? I didn't equate a brand with a device category.

You wrote, "Tape players and iPods are not the same last time I looked?" What is the point of such a statement? A tape player is a type of device while an Ipod is a brand. The topic was: which device was "the best selling music device on Earth [your words]?"

Please try to pay attention and stay on topic.


2. According to you the walkman has sold: 340 million since 1979? And Apple has sold 297 million iPods as of Dec 2010. So Apple in 10 years (IPod came out in 2001) has sold all most as many iPods as Sony has sold walkmans in 30 plus years??? So in 1/3 the time. Hummmmm. Lets do a little math.
Apple has been selling at a clip of about 30 million a year (297 / 10)
Sony has been selling at a clip of about 11 million a year (340 / 30)
And you want to sit here and tell me which is more popular???

Nevertheless, the Walkman has sold more units than the Ipod.

Also, you excluded a couple of significant factors from your math.

The world population in 1979 was around 4.37 billion, when the Walkman became popular. In contrast, the Ipod first became popular in 2004, when the world population was 6.4 billion. That's a 46% increase. Assuming that most of the Walkman sales happened when the device first became incredibly popular (when the world population was dramatically less), it is very likely that sales-per-capita was greater with the Walkman than with the Ipod. Sales-per-capita is a more valid indicator of sales strength -- you can't sell to folks who don't exist!

In addition, a lot of national markets were unavailable when the Walkman first appeared, further decreasing the pool of available prospective customers. So, "sales-per-available-customer" is an even more valid sales strength indicator. If we could get accurate sales figures and good statistics on available markets, I have no doubt that the Walkman sales-per-available-customer would greatly exceed those of the Ipod.

Furthermore, Sony did very little in the way of advertising compared to Apple, which plastered Ipod ads everywhere for an extended period. So, the Walkman sales were based significantly more on merit rather than on advertising/marketing, as compared to the Ipod.


Ok I don't know about you but the math tells me that the iPod is and has been way more popular in it's life span.

No.

Again, the Walkman has sold more units total. But even if we don't use total numbers, the Walkman has outdone the Ipod in "popularity" because its "sales-per-available-customer" is probably significantly greater.

Look at it this way, in the U.S.A., FDR got 60.8% of the vote when he won the presidency in 1936, while Obama got 52.9% of the vote when he won the presidency in 2008. However FDR only got 27,752,648 votes while Obama got 69,456,897 votes. So, who was the more popular president? -- FDR, of course -- FDR won a greater percentage of available votes.


And since the "iPod" is a brand name I could stretch it and say that the brand name is also included in all iPhones and all iPads since all have the functionality of an iPod which Apple loves to point out. But I am not going to even kill you with that, I am going to go with one more nugget.

You would probably lose with that stretch, because Sony has an exceedingly more eclectic and varied consumer product line, including many decades of consumer audio products and Sony Ericsson music phones.


Look at sales of Walkmans since 2001 head to head with the iPod? No competition.

I wouldn't say that. The Walkman was outselling Ipods in Japan in 2009: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=ansrP2IonbRA The Ipod outsold the Walkman in Japan for only 4 years of the Walkman's 32-year existence. Pretty amazing for such a long enduring product.

Anyway, everything has it's time. Remember your words? -- "the best selling music device on Earth." Historically, that would be the Walkman.

By the way, Ipod sales are currently waning.


The only thing the Walkman has on the iPod is longevity. That is the only reason there are more Walkmans sold then there are iPods. The only reason.

Longevity is a solid indicator of a quality product. I seriously doubt that the Ipod will last more than two or three more years.


Ummm and on that note that would make my original declaration correct.

Huh? Which declaration?


Oh and while i am at it us "Fanboys" can rest confident in a few facts:
No music player will EVER sell like the iPod.

No.

It is very likely that the Walkman outdid the Ipod in sales-per-available-customer, and it is a fact that the Walkman has sold more units total than the Ipod.


No Tablet will sell like iPad.
No Smartphone will sell like the iPhone.
No laptop will sell like the Mac Book Air.
Those are facts us "fanboys" will be able to sit and chew on for a LONG time to come! A very long time to come.

Are you from the future?

Perhaps you would be willing to make a little wager on those assertions (especially on the Iphone statement, since Android phones have long since eclipsed IOS phones).


Last note: yes ANYTHING popular can't be popular in all places at all times. So I am sure that the iPod is out sold some place on earth,

You betcha! There is this little place called Asia...


Just like there is some place on earth where Macs outsell Windows machines. (At colleges for instance)

Or at the Apple Store, for example.


but over all the iPod has 60 plus percent of the market, its a good bit over HALF of the market so its BY FAR the most popular music device on earth.

The Walkman had almost 100% percent share of the portable music player market when it was first popular, so, no, the Ipod is not by a huge margin "the most popular music device on Earth."

There is one point that the Apple fanboys used to constantly chant before the Ipod, and now seem to have forgotten. The point is that popularity/sales figures does not necessarily equal quality. I wholeheartedly agree with that argument (but I would not concur that Apple makes quality products). No doubt we will hear this point again, when Apple sales are in the dumps.

The pet rock is a great analogy of how Apple's current popularity does not necessarily mean that Apple products have quality: http://www.petsdo.com/blog/pet-rock-made-man-multi-millionaire-6-mo... The pet rock was immensely popular, due purely from fad marketing -- the content of the product was simply a rock. Apple uses fad marketing in precisely the same way, and the products really aren't that great.

Reply Parent Score: 3

kristoph Member since:
2006-01-01

No doubt we will hear this point again, when Apple sales are in the dumps.


Did you hear that Apples year over year sales are up 124%. I think it's like 15+ quarters in a row of double digit growth. Pfft. That means nothing, right? It's because they make shinier pet rocks.

Oh and those quality and customer satisfaction ratings. Pfft. They only call the fanboys, right? Real people hate apple products (not made of plastic).

Honestly, dude, listen to yourself. Your like a bad caricature.

]{

Reply Parent Score: 1

Windows Sucks Member since:
2005-11-10

LOL!

Nevertheless, the Walkman has sold more units than the Ipod.

Also, you excluded a couple of significant factors from your math.

The world population in 1979 was around 4.37 billion, when the Walkman became popular. In contrast, the Ipod first became popular in 2004, when the world population was 6.4 billion. That's a 46% increase. Assuming that most of the Walkman sales happened when the device first became incredibly popular (when the world population was dramatically less), it is very likely that sales-per-capita was greater with the Walkman than with the Ipod. Sales-per-capita is a more valid indicator of sales strength -- you can't sell to folks who don't exist!

In addition, a lot of national markets were unavailable when the Walkman first appeared, further decreasing the pool of available prospective customers. So, "sales-per-available-customer" is an even more valid sales strength indicator. If we could get accurate sales figures and good statistics on available markets, I have no doubt that the Walkman sales-per-available-customer would greatly exceed those of the Ipod.

Furthermore, Sony did very little in the way of advertising compared to Apple, which plastered Ipod ads everywhere for an extended period. So, the Walkman sales were based significantly more on merit rather than on advertising/marketing, as compared to the Ipod.


All that is mute because if your numbers hold the iPod based on it's current sales rate will outsell the Walkman by next year. Then what? And you act as if the the iPods sales are waining because of competition or something?

And you said Sony didn't advertise like Apple?? Huh. Sony is a company known as one of the best at advertising just like Apple. You look at the walkman's wikipedia page and one of the first things you see about the walkman is how its advertising helped it sell: "Advertising, despite all the foreign languages, still attracted thousands of buyers in the US specifically"

Or: "Sony's marketing team produced their first advertisement, a print ad, in 1979 named Bridging the difference. The marketing of the Walkman introduced the idea of 'Japanese-ness' into global culture, synonymous with miniaturization and high-technology." Those statements are at the beginning of the page, not dug out out of the page.

Fact is Sony marketed just as hard as Apple does. Also if you look at it Apple actually makes way fewer Ads for their products then most companies. You can normally count them on your fingers and Apple puts them on their site so its easy to see when new ads come out and how many they have made.

No.

Again, the Walkman has sold more units total. But even if we don't use total numbers, the Walkman has outdone the Ipod in "popularity" because its "sales-per-available-customer" is probably significantly greater.

Look at it this way, in the U.S.A., FDR got 60.8% of the vote when he won the presidency in 1936, while Obama got 52.9% of the vote when he won the presidency in 2008. However FDR only got 27,752,648 votes while Obama got 69,456,897 votes. So, who was the more popular president? -- FDR, of course -- FDR won a greater percentage of available votes


Again when the iPod outsells the walkman then what? Even though the iPod is waning (Killed by Apple putting the same functions in the iPhone and iPad as the iPad can do, not by it not being popular still) its still selling at almost 10 million a quarter, then what??

Also Apple, unlike Sony has not actually moved the iPod name to other different devices like Sony has. Sony makes walkman phones and walkman digital players etc. The iPod is the same as the day it came out, a digital media player. a few different shapes and sizes but still the same. They have not kept the name alive by trying to sell other things and market them as iPods like Sony has done with the Walkman name. I bet if you look in detail at the original use of the Walkman then the sales numbers you like to tout will get a good bit smaller.

Also your math is still off because you left out competition The Walkman did not have the same level of competition as the iPod did. Sony made the market for walkman "type" devices. Apple did not, yet Apple took over that market. Also as you said the iPods sales are waining, so are EVERY other device like the iPod. Because times are different as you said. People now have the same functions in their phones.

Are you from the future?

Perhaps you would be willing to make a little wager on those assertions (especially on the Iphone statement, since Android phones have long since eclipsed IOS phones).


Ahhhhh I never mentioned iOS. I said the iPhone. Android is an OS used by almost 50 companies, the iPhone is a single device. And NO Android device has sold as well as the iPhone (Not even close) or the iPad (Not even close) Sort of like your argument over iPod and tape player. And I don't need to be from the future. If you look at the BEST Android devices, their sales are not even close to the iPhone or iPad or even the iPod touch or the Apple TV. So I don't need to be from the future. Yes if you add up 500 different Android devices Android has the lead in numbers. Apple has the money though! Hummm.


The Walkman had almost 100% percent share of the portable music player market when it was first popular, so, no, the Ipod is not by a huge margin "the most popular music device on Earth."


Yes but that goes with your argument that the population of the earth was different then, there were almost no electronic companies making those type of devices at that time, so you would expect it to have almost 100% market share. And STILL Sony jacked another companies idea to make the walkman and didn't pay license fees for decades over it. And you said the correct word: HAD. As it stands not its NOT.

The point is that popularity/sales figures does not necessarily equal quality. I wholeheartedly agree with that argument (but I would not concur that Apple makes quality products). No doubt we will hear this point again, when Apple sales are in the dumps.


You don't have to concur, you are not a person who buys Apple products it seems. Those who do over and over again give Apple the highest marks in almost every product category Apple is in for quality. So your concurrence doesn't matter, thats your opinion. Not fact.

The pet rock is a great analogy of how Apple's current popularity does not necessarily mean that Apple products have quality: http://www.petsdo.com/blog/pet-rock-made-man-multi-millionaire-6-mo..... The pet rock was immensely popular, due purely from fad marketing -- the content of the product was simply a rock. Apple uses fad marketing in precisely the same way, and the products really aren't that great.


Again I am confused at your argument. Please show me facts of who has better quality? To pull out the pet rock doesn't mean anything to me. Show me what company in a product category that Apple is popular in:

Music players
Tablets
Smart phones
Video players (Like the Apple TV)
Computers

Show me who is rated with better quality?

You betcha! There is this little place called Asia...


Right and Apple is just really getting into Asia yet they are KILLING in China. With only a hand full of stores Apple is selling better in China then in any place on earth. The same with most of Asia but Japan. Even though Apple is very popular you can't expect them to outsell well established local companies like Sony in Japan. Just like you can't expect Sony to do the same here with Apple.

At this point Apple is number one. Thats just the way it is. They are going to be in that position for a while so get used to it. Sony is almost dead at this point and there is not much other competition out there at this time. Just like Apple has a lot of fanboys, they also have a lot of haters. LOL! Its ok, we are used to it.

In the end the iPod will outsell the "walkman" in all its different versions and that will be that.

Reply Parent Score: 2