Linked by David Adams on Thu 29th Sep 2011 23:47 UTC, submitted by lucas_maximus
Linux Linux is struggling on the desktop because it only has a small number of "great" apps, according to the Gnome co-creator. Miguel de Icaza, co-creator of the Gnome desktop, told tech journalist Tim Anderson at the recent Windows 8 Build conference "When you count how many great desktop apps there are on Linux, you can probably name 10," de Icaza said, according to a post on Anderson's IT Writing blog. "You work really hard, you can probably name 20. We've managed to p*** off developers every step of the way, breaking APIs all the time."
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RE[5]: Comment by stabbyjones
by lemur2 on Mon 3rd Oct 2011 00:28 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by stabbyjones"
lemur2
Member since:
2007-02-17

"The killer feature of Linux is value-for-money. One can achieve vastly more capability per dollar spent on a Linux machine.


Except that the majority of people don't care about this. I've worked both in a small local computer shop servicing home users and for a consultant business servicing business IT for networks up to 200 people. One of the commonalities of both of those markets is that they want something to "just work".

Home users don't care about the "choice" or added capabilities that Linux offers. They want to turn the computer on, log into their email, do their banking, etc. and turn it off. If you were to tell them about "choice" or "computer freedom" or "more capability per dollar", they'd look at you like you were insane. They don't care. These people buy a new OS when they replace their computer. That only happens when the old one dies. Saying "But you have more capability!" means nothing to them.

Business' clients want a system that just works with what they already have. They don't want to pay their IT staff to figure out how to coax Postfix & Dovecot to mimic what their old Exchange server could do. They don't want to have to sort out Samba when a Windows server will share files with five or so mouse clicks. They don't want to pay to have their old applications rewritten to use Linux technologies. They don't want to figure out why a mail merge that worked with Word and Excel suddenly doesn't work with Writer and Calc. This will cost them money and provide almost nothing in return.

"Capability per dollar" means nothing if the people you're trying to convince to switch have no use for the added capabilities.

This is coming from somebody who runs a personal FreeBSD server, has done SysAdmin on NetBSD and Linux for an ISP, has been using Linux on the desktop off and on since 2000 and has worked in IT for over ten years.

In fact, such people might even come on Internet forums and try to justify their expensive choice, perhaps to make them feel better. They might even go so far as to try to insist that a far better value-for-money alternative doesn't exist, when clearly, it does. They might even down-vote others in a kind of semi-irrational state of denial.


You are extremely abrasive. This paragraph is so full of passive-aggressive posturing that I'd swear it was written by a twelve year old. My guess is that the attitude you're displaying here is enough to get people to down vote you just for spite.
"

Every single one of your points is "classical FUD" against Linux.

If one gets a desktop Linux LiveCD today, and installs it on a bare machine, it will work instantly out of the box.

Yes, I repeat, it will "just work".

Ordinary people will absolutely be able to: "turn the computer on, log into their email, do their banking, etc. and turn it off".

Why on earth would you imagine that they wouldn't be able to?

Why would you imagine people would struggle setting up Postfix & Dovecot if it didn't meet their needs (it isn't a replacement for Exchange). Why wouldn't they simply go for Openchange/SoGo or Zarafa (which are a replacements for Exchange)?

http://www.openchange.org/

http://www.zarafa.com/

What the hell are you on about, anyway? Why do you feel the need to try to spread disinformation like you did?

How come alleged "cool factor" is important anyway if people allegedly want things to work "out of the box"? I will simply point out that what you list as cool for OSX and Windows doesn't work out of the box. Out of the box it is nowhere to be seen. I will further point out that there is nothing in your "cool" list that the equivalent cannot be had for desktop Linux. Except that for Linux, one can easily install for free using a few click in the GUI package manager.

Indeed "Capability per dollar" means nothing if the people you're trying to convince to switch have already spent their dollars on something else far more expensive. Like you they are more likely to try to justify their previous outlay. OTOH, "capability per dollar" means everything to people who are looking at a new system (or their first system) and who don't have an excess of unused dollars just lying around idle.

With your faux criticism of desktop Linux, you too are extremely abrasive.

You sound like you are crying in your beer over all that money you needlessly spent.

Edited 2011-10-03 00:36 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: Comment by stabbyjones
by zlynx on Mon 3rd Oct 2011 17:10 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by stabbyjones"
zlynx Member since:
2005-07-20

If one gets a desktop Linux LiveCD today, and installs it on a bare machine, it will work instantly out of the box.

Yes, I repeat, it will "just work".

Not in my experience. Any hardware that is the slightest bit new, and Linux is likely to fail in "interesting" ways.

For example, in 2009 I built a new desktop system using a Gigabyte X58 motherboard, Core i7 920 and a pair of SATA Velociraptor drives.

None of the Linux distributions could run it. I had to custom-compile the latest Linux -rc versions just to get the SATA drivers. Then I needed binary ATI video drivers because the open source drivers couldn't handle the card.

This year I got a Samsung Series 9 laptop. Very nice, but no optical drive. So, off I went to boot a Fedora Live CD from a USB stick. Should be easy right? There's even a tool for it.

Heck no. The Live CD assumes that the media (the USB key in this case) will have the same volume name that the CD was burned with. Took me a couple of hours to figure that one out!

Then there were all the problems, like reboot crashing the machine (had to add reboot=k), and the LED flashing after a crash preventing the power-off key from working (had to add another kernel option to fix that) and EXT4 defaulting to not using TRIM on the SSD.

So, to repeat: In my personal experience with Linux, which I like a lot, it takes a software engineer and sysadmin to make Linux "just work."

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[7]: Comment by stabbyjones
by lemur2 on Mon 3rd Oct 2011 21:59 in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by stabbyjones"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

"If one gets a desktop Linux LiveCD today, and installs it on a bare machine, it will work instantly out of the box. Yes, I repeat, it will "just work".
Not in my experience. Any hardware that is the slightest bit new, and Linux is likely to fail in "interesting" ways. For example, in 2009 I built a new desktop system using a Gigabyte X58 motherboard, Core i7 920 and a pair of SATA Velociraptor drives. None of the Linux distributions could run it. I had to custom-compile the latest Linux -rc versions just to get the SATA drivers. Then I needed binary ATI video drivers because the open source drivers couldn't handle the card. This year I got a Samsung Series 9 laptop. Very nice, but no optical drive. So, off I went to boot a Fedora Live CD from a USB stick. Should be easy right? There's even a tool for it. Heck no. The Live CD assumes that the media (the USB key in this case) will have the same volume name that the CD was burned with. Took me a couple of hours to figure that one out! Then there were all the problems, like reboot crashing the machine (had to add reboot=k), and the LED flashing after a crash preventing the power-off key from working (had to add another kernel option to fix that) and EXT4 defaulting to not using TRIM on the SSD. So, to repeat: In my personal experience with Linux, which I like a lot, it takes a software engineer and sysadmin to make Linux "just work." "

Get real. Who exactly are you trying to kid?

Firstly, if one were to do for Linux the same as one did for Windows, and buy it pre-installed on a machine designed to run it, then Linux too would "just work". It would "just work" very well indeed, and unlike Windows it would continue to work very well. It would not get slower with time, and it would be quite unlikely to ever get compromised by malware.

For self-installed Linux, one puts in a LiveCD, and on 95% of machines it will indeed "just work". Of the existing machines out there today, a current desktop Linux distribution tailored for that class of machine will "just work" far more often than any current version of Windows. These are machines designed for Windows, mind you. Linux is far, far easier to self-install and get to a satisfactory working state than Windows is.

Linux has more working drivers for more hardware than any other OS on the planet, by quite a long way. Linux runs on more hardware than any other OS.

The ball is back in your court.

Edited 2011-10-03 22:18 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2