Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 6th Mar 2012 23:27 UTC
Windows As you may have seen, David's been taking care of OSNews for a few days because I'm quite busy with work. Still, there's one thing I'd like to talk about: the desktop mode in Windows 8. I wish I could've added this to the first impressions article, but I only arrived at this conclusion yesterday: desktop mode in Windows 8 is Microsoft's equivalent of Mac OS X's Classic mode.
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RE: Metro
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 7th Mar 2012 00:21 UTC in reply to "Metro"
Thom_Holwerda
Member since:
2005-06-29

Windows 7. No significant amount of people are going to switch to Linux because of Windows 8. Vista didn't either. If they don't like 8, they'll use 7.

This meme really needs to stop. People don't want Linux. Deal with it. They want Windows or Mac OS X. Harsh and sad, but that's the reality supported by the facts.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Metro
by Delgarde on Wed 7th Mar 2012 01:00 in reply to "RE: Metro"
Delgarde Member since:
2008-08-19

Windows 7. No significant amount of people are going to switch to Linux because of Windows 8. Vista didn't either. If they don't like 8, they'll use 7.


That, and many of the corporate desktops are still running XP. It's only been in the last six months or so that any of my customers have expressed interest in Windows 7...

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Metro
by orestes on Wed 7th Mar 2012 01:02 in reply to "RE: Metro"
orestes Member since:
2005-07-06

People are sheep who go with whatever's installed on their drive when they buy their computer. Always have been, always will be. If a Linux distro were to get the marketing right it could very well gain momentum.

Not that I lament their not moving en masse to some form of Linux one bit.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[3]: Metro
by tomcat on Wed 7th Mar 2012 02:37 in reply to "RE[2]: Metro"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

People are sheep who go with whatever's installed on their drive when they buy their computer. Always have been, always will be. If a Linux distro were to get the marketing right it could very well gain momentum.

Not that I lament their not moving en masse to some form of Linux one bit.


The market has spoken. Move on already.

Reply Parent Score: 2

v RE[3]: Metro
by Luminair on Wed 7th Mar 2012 03:22 in reply to "RE[2]: Metro"
RE[3]: Metro
by ViktorRabe on Thu 8th Mar 2012 12:26 in reply to "RE[2]: Metro"
ViktorRabe Member since:
2011-12-30

People are sheep who go with whatever's installed on their drive when they buy their computer. Always have been, always will be. If a Linux distro were to get the marketing right it could very well gain momentum.


Wait for it ....

Not that I lament their not moving en masse to some form of Linux one bit.


Jackpot!

"Hey, I'd really like to see Linux make it big, if they just could get the marketing right. But the invasion of Noobs is on the other hand a frightening image. I stay with my carefully cultivated exclusivity, thank you very much. We don't need a frakkin' mass market!"

Schizophrenia at its best.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Metro
by Gone fishing on Wed 7th Mar 2012 09:25 in reply to "RE: Metro"
Gone fishing Member since:
2006-02-22

Things change, During the Vista débâcle we saw the rise of Apple, Windows 7 allowed MS to recover somewhat, during this time Linux has grown slowly on the Desktop. However, it has made in roads in other areas and Desktop Linux has slowly improved. If some of Canonicals plans come together we will see Ubuntu take off in various new areas, and this may well renew interest in the Desktop.

One problem with Desktop Linux has been the willingness of a big player to take the plunge this may change.

Edit I do hate mouse taps on laptop tracker pads - forgot to turn it off on this new install of 12.04

Edited 2012-03-07 09:42 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Metro
by DhulKarnain on Wed 7th Mar 2012 14:36 in reply to "RE[2]: Metro"
DhulKarnain Member since:
2009-11-03

Folks who dislike Metro sure as hell won't embrace Unity, HUD and global menu with open arms, I can tell you that. Linux failed to grab any significant market share from the disaster that was Vista, and nothing will change in that regard with Win8.

They'll just keep running Win7 for the next 5 or so years (and since MS recently announced the extension of lifecycle support, there will hardly be any major impetus for an OS change).

IMO Metro on desktop will most likely fail (not that windows based tablets will be a resounding success - iPad cornered that market a year ago), thereby forcing MS to keep extending Win7 support for a far longer amount of time than they wanted. Or perhaps they make a "classic" edition of Win9 or something similar, and keep the current desktop metaphor alive.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Metro
by Bit_Rapist on Wed 7th Mar 2012 16:13 in reply to "RE: Metro"
Bit_Rapist Member since:
2005-11-13

Thom you can't see a possible scenario in the near future where Linux might take off on the desktop?

Let me paint a picture of how it could *possibly* happen.

1 - Windows 8 is a disaster, loss of desktop functionality leads to frustration with the operating system. MS bleeds a lot of customers

2 - Apple continues to turn OS X into iOS and starts pushing mac computers with ARM processors and locks the user to the appstore for all software needs. People called you crazy when you proposed this will happen but I fully believe it is just a matter of time. I'm in your camp on this one.

I can def see Linux on the desktop becoming popular. We hear a lot about the 'war on general computing' and you have posted about it yourself. There is a war. As more people start waking up to the *freedoms* they are losing linux will start looking a whole lot better than ever.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Metro
by ilovebeer on Wed 7th Mar 2012 17:16 in reply to "RE[2]: Metro"
ilovebeer Member since:
2011-08-08

1 - Windows 8 is a disaster, loss of desktop functionality leads to frustration with the operating system. MS bleeds a lot of customers

You're making a terribly enormous assumption that most Windows 7 users _are_ going to switch to Windows 8. I can't think of a single person I've heard say they'll make that switch, and I can't count how many people said they're going to skip Windows 8 completely.

2 - Apple continues to turn OS X into iOS and starts pushing mac computers with ARM processors and locks the user to the appstore for all software needs. People called you crazy when you proposed this will happen but I fully believe it is just a matter of time. I'm in your camp on this one.

It would be interesting to see how many Apple users would care if this happened or not. The app store seems to be fully accepted by the vast majority so I'd bet the only ones who would protest would be a small handful.

I can def see Linux on the desktop becoming popular. We hear a lot about the 'war on general computing' and you have posted about it yourself. There is a war. As more people start waking up to the *freedoms* they are losing linux will start looking a whole lot better than ever.

In your scenario the only way Linux becomes popular is with the complete failure of everything else. That doesn't speak very highly of Linux.

I take another position. I do not see Linux becoming a popular desktop solution, ever, and it has nothing to do with the 'competition' at all. I come to my conclusion based on all the ailments Linux has as a desktop, and it's total inability to do so in many many many years of availability. Not to mention it's failure to gain support by companies in key areas, gaming for example.

I also don't believe the vast majority believes in or gives a damn about any 'war on computing'. As long as they're able to do what they want to do, which is basically use the web, email, socialize, and media playback, they couldn't care less. When was the last time you heard an average user complain about feeling oppressed and his non-existent 'computer rights' being taken from him? Never, or damn close to it.

I understand some people have a serious bromance going with Linux, but with any issues you _might_ solve by switching to it, you're introducing a whole host of others. Linux has it's place in the computer world, but it's not as a solid desktop alternative.

I suppose now I'll wait for someone to list off the email clients, web browsers, and media players for Linux like that is somehow supposed to make everything I just said disappear.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Metro
by WereCatf on Wed 7th Mar 2012 17:37 in reply to "RE[2]: Metro"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

1 - Windows 8 is a disaster, loss of desktop functionality leads to frustration with the operating system. MS bleeds a lot of customers


People don't just suddenly decide to upgrade to Win8. They use whatever their machines come with and if the machines come with Win8 and they don't like it they'll just take the machine back and demand something else, at which point they'll be offered either a Mac or Win7.

2 - Apple continues to turn OS X into iOS and starts pushing mac computers with ARM processors and locks the user to the appstore for all software needs. People called you crazy when you proposed this will happen but I fully believe it is just a matter of time. I'm in your camp on this one.


Of course this will happen, but people will still use Macs anyway.

As more people start waking up to the *freedoms* they are losing


You're WAY out of touch with the rest of the world there. The general populace does not see things like that, they do not think what "rights" or "freedoms" they have or don't have as long as they get their carrot-on-a-stick. Access to Apple App Store and iTunes for example is one such carrot and it works just fine. The tactics is simple; have people focus on one thing while you're doing your thing behind their backs, then just say "No, it cannot do that, you must buy this-and-that" and people will do so.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Metro
by Adam S on Wed 7th Mar 2012 16:28 in reply to "RE: Metro"
Adam S Member since:
2005-04-01

I'd call this very shortsighted.

With the advent of streaming and provisioned desktops, the end device is getting dumber and could easily be replaced with a Linux client. In fact, I already have plenty of Linux devices (thin clients) that are Citrix endpoints.

Thin clients are getting more powerful, and soon, they'll essentially be desktops. They have GPUs that can decode HD video and render Aero and other compositing, they have gigabit NICs and dual core processors.

Seeing Linux as a capable desktop is definitely possible in my mind.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Metro
by Anonymous Penguin on Wed 7th Mar 2012 17:36 in reply to "RE: Metro"
Anonymous Penguin Member since:
2005-07-06

Thom, I don't know why Linux is that horrible.
KDE 4 and GNOME 3, plus severe shortage of good apps, I know.
Personally, being the admin of one of the largest Mac forums out there. it is only normal that I prefer OS X.
But in the past (that is now several years ago) I'd often prefer Linux to Windows.
The Linux golden age has already come and gone, alas.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Metro
by WereCatf on Wed 7th Mar 2012 17:48 in reply to "RE[2]: Metro"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

Thom, I don't know why Linux is that horrible.


While I'm not Thom -- obviously -- I do have to agree with him. I used Linux for almost ten years on the desktop and I still use it as a server OS, but eventually I dropped it and went full-time with Win7. Why? Because there's always something that breaks without any good reason, always this or that feature missing, things are often even more inconsistent than they are on Windows(!), and very, very often there are issues with hardware not being supported at all, or atleast some major feature not being supported.

Oh, and it sucks for gaming.

As a server OS it is exceedingly good, though, and I do wish I could use it also as my desktop. But I simply do not want that headache anymore.

OT: I doubt I'll be using Win8 either. I do not like Metro and I especially do not like that I cannot freely move and resize windows how I like. Undoubtedly more and more software will automatically start using Metro if running on Win8 and as such the afore-mentioned feature will be stripped away from me. But alas, we do not have Win8 Final yet, it remains to be seen if Microsoft will amend some of my primary issues or not.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Metro
by bassbeast on Thu 8th Mar 2012 15:12 in reply to "RE: Metro"
bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

I gotta agree, nobody is gonna deal with all the hassles and the "busted toilets" as i call them, the bugs that simply never get fixed like serious driver issues, lack of complete docs, lack of good regression testing and QA in Linux just to get rid of Windows, not when Windows 7 is supported until 2020 at the earliest and more likely if Win 8 doesn't pan out may get an XP style extension until they come up with another winner.

I'd say the bigger problem with Win 8 is metro is obviously a touch OS when touch is by far the minority interface and frankly won't be changing. Sure iPads are nice but how many people want to poke their greasy fingers at their monitor or laptop all day? I'd say less than 1% of the x86/x64 units being sold are touch enabled and when you take out kiosks and POS machines the numbers are so tiny to be worthless as a target audience.

IMHO what MSFT should have done was REALLY rip off Apple instead of just going halfway, I mean you don't see Apple trying to run vanilla iOS on the new macbooks do you? of course not. they should have left WinTab just that, an OS for tablets, and kept Windows what it was, which is an OS for desktops and laptops. Instead with the incredible stupidity that can only come from the mind of Ballmer you'll have Win 8 ARM which will be a Windows that doesn't actually run Windows programs....now think about that for a minute. Your average Windows buyer doesn't know ARM from an Xbox so what do you THINK will happen? i can answer that as i saw it first hand last Xmas season when a local retailer was selling "Windows tablets!" with a little CE in the corner. All people knew was it LOOKED like WinXP yet when they got it home none of their Windows programs would run! They brought it back en masse and they ended up covering the Win logo on the boxes and selling them at a loss.

Mark my words unless they seriously change the name and marketing strategy you are gonna see the end of MSBob jokes as those will be replaced with Win 8 jokes. When people see the name Windows they expect to be able to run Windows programs, this WILL be the case in x86 but won't be the case in ARM. Now most folks can't even tell you if they have 32 bits or 64, you expect them to know how to tell identical looking Windows versions by knowing the arch? I don't care if metro is the sweetest thing your eyes have ever beheld Mr Holwerda you have to admit that is full of fail.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Metro
by brettlegree on Thu 8th Mar 2012 16:20 in reply to "RE: Metro"
brettlegree Member since:
2011-07-11

I expect we might get a dedicated/forced way to enter a "fallback" or "classic" mode, for corporate use or people who don't want to use Metro.

If not, there will be third-party apps to do this (Stardock already released one called Start8 - they claim it took only one day to code it).

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Metro
by alibadrelsayed on Fri 9th Mar 2012 12:15 in reply to "RE: Metro"
alibadrelsayed Member since:
2011-06-27

You gave a faulty assumption, so your syllogism fell apart. Classic fallacy

Reply Parent Score: 1