Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 28th Mar 2012 22:29 UTC
Games The rumour mill for the next generation of video game consoles has been churning out some juicy stuff these past few months. While Nintendo has laid most of its cards out on the table, Microsoft and Sony have remained tight-lipped, probably because their consoles are still seeing increased sales. So, we have to rely on rumours, and those rumours have one thing in common: Microsoft and Sony want to eliminate the used games market.
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Dr.Mabuse
Member since:
2009-05-19

I see a huge opportunity here for the indie/open source developers to step up.


It certainly is, and there are already some great titles out there.

As people who know me will testify, I'm a huge fan of Urban Terror. IMHO, this game ticks ALL the right check boxes for a multi-player FPS... I've played it for YEARS, and it's completely free to download and play!

What commercial title can compare for that sort of long-term satisfaction? WoW perhaps? (Not my thing, but it seems popular.)

So as far as I'm concerned, if they kill the used game market they are only going to hurt themselves - it might just turn people off buying completely (as you say.)

I think a lot of people are struggling with the concept of paying top dollar for the same repackaged titles over and over again.

Reply Parent Score: 4

bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

Actually I'd say Urban terror is exactly what is WRONG with indie games and here is why: What is it? yet another Q3 Arena clone. Now compare it to MW3 or Call Of Duty or even Far Cry I from 2003...see the difference?

The problem with indie games in a nutshell is unless its a little popcap or humble bundle style game what you end up with is "itch scratching" and ripping off the same old tired ideas over and over and OVER because its easy. its simply easier to just make another Q3 Arena clone that it is to make a game with good story, excellent characters, decent acting, etc. the simple fact is there is a VERY small niche for the whole "chicken with its head cut off" throwing crap at each other MP only game and most of those players are in the latest Call of Dooky MP or playing TF2 for free.

So while I wish the indies nothing but luck ripping off Q3 Arena AGAIN simply isn't gonna set the world on fire, nobody is gonna go "Oh but YOUR ripoff of Q3 Arena is just so much more special than the 40 other Q3 Arena ripoffs" and suddenly make it take off. Do something different, something new, hell make it funny like No One Lives forever or crazy like Postal II, SOMETHING besides yet another MP only Q3 Arena clone.

Reply Parent Score: 3

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

its simply easier to just make another Q3 Arena clone that it is to make a game with good story, excellent characters, decent acting, etc.


Heh, that's exactly my feeling. Every time I download a oss FPS it's the same tired multiplayer arene game. It might look good and run smooth but that's of little consolation. Sure, MP is fun but some of us enjoy games with a good singleplayer campaign and don't want to spend every waking hour on an MP server.

Reply Parent Score: 3

Dr.Mabuse Member since:
2009-05-19

Now compare it to MW3 or Call Of Duty or even Far Cry I from 2003...see the difference?


I do see the difference - they are worth playing for a few of hours and then they are a throw away item (hence the used game market.)

The irony of your argument is astounding. The big-name outfits have been rehashing the same ideas for years man! And you can bet they don't all use their own bespoke game engine either.

To just lump UrT into the "another Q3 rip-off" is doing it an extreme injustice. UrT doesn't play like anything else and it has fantastic replay value.

Reply Parent Score: 1

sgtrock Member since:
2011-05-13

While I concede that most commercial games don't have legs, I can think of three answers to your question about commercial games with long term playability; Counter-Strike, Team Fortess, and Day of Defeat.

It's interesting, isn't it, that all three started as free, player developed mods? It's almost as if players actually design games that are, you know, fun to play! :-)

Edited 2012-03-29 14:42 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

Dr.Mabuse Member since:
2009-05-19

It's interesting, isn't it, that all three started as free, player developed mods? It's almost as if players actually design games that are, you know, fun to play! :-)


Exactly! This is the essence of the back-room/bedroom game maker. They're not sitting there labouring over ways to squeeze more cash out of you (or selling you iteration n+10 of the same tired formula.)

A good game can stand the test of time, even if the sound and graphics begin to feel dated. That why so many people love emulators these days too!

Reply Parent Score: 2

WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

It certainly is, and there are already some great titles out there.


As I wrote on my Google+ page a few days ago, all I'm seeing is very much simpified rehashes of some old game, completely relying on one or two silly gimmicks like e.g. "let's make it look like it's 8-bit, ZOMGSOCOOL!"

Or, they rely on it being multiplayer being enough of a reason for people to play it.

Sure, there is an audience for stuff like that, too, and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with aiming for such an audience. However, people like me want more, I want visually pleasing graphics, I want an interesting single-player story -- even better if the story can be completed in co-op! --, I want it to be involved enough so that you can't just pick it up for 5 minutes and go do something else after that.

I do not want or need yet-another-brainless-multiplayer and I do not want or need stupid, gimmicky tricks like pixelized graphics. As such there's EXTREMELY little of anything worth mentioning on either the F/OSS- or Indie-games scene.

Reply Parent Score: 2

Dr.Mabuse Member since:
2009-05-19

As I wrote on my Google+ page a few days ago, all I'm seeing is very much simpified rehashes of some old game, completely relying on one or two silly gimmicks like e.g. "let's make it look like it's 8-bit, ZOMGSOCOOL!"


I'm not to sure many people react like that, but anyway...

Or, they rely on it being multiplayer being enough of a reason for people to play it.


Fair call!

However, people like me want more, I want visually pleasing graphics, I want an interesting single-player story -- even better if the story can be completed in co-op! --, I want it to be involved enough so that you can't just pick it up for 5 minutes and go do something else after that.


I'm pretty much the polar opposite. I hate long-winded stories in games. That's for books and movies. I like being able to pick up a game, play for 30 minutes or an hour and then get on with (real) life.

Visually pleasing is a nice to have - but what constitutes visually pleasing to one person is not necessarily appealing to another. I, for example love the compact, clean look of YSFlight, vs. other more complicated (and frankly, bloated) flight simulators.

I do not want or need yet-another-brainless-multiplayer and I do not want or need stupid, gimmicky tricks like pixelized graphics. As such there's EXTREMELY little of anything worth mentioning on either the F/OSS- or Indie-games scene.


Look, this is very subjective.

I don't consider multi-player to be "brainless" - quite often you need to develop strategies with your team-mates to win a round. This can be a spontaneous and satisfying experience.

You consider pixelated graphics gimmicky, where as I appreciate the effort that pixel-artists put into their work (not only in games, but in the demo scene as well.)

I guess we are just different type of gamers and there is nothing wrong with that. To try and tie this back to the original article's theme, I think you're probably going to suffer more than myself with the proposed changes...

Reply Parent Score: 1

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

"let's make it look like it's 8-bit, ZOMGSOCOOL!"


Wait, what? We're not talking about mobile games, are we??

Reply Parent Score: 2

bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

Thanks, nice to see i'm not the only one sick of the Q3 Arena 'hey lets all run like chickens with our heads cut off shooting at everything that moves' snoozefests. Seriously what does yet another FOSS Q3 Arena clone have to offer that I can't get from TF2 for free? Or pay the whole $5 and get HL1 or HL2 DM?

IMHO its old, its boring, its been done to death, and as you pointed out MP has become a crutch, so they don't have to come up with anything original or exciting. I for one have ZERO desire to deal with yet another MP only game based on Q3 Arena and just because its FOSS means nothing to me, plenty of free games to play now that are NOT Q3 Arena clones.

Reply Parent Score: 1