Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 30th Apr 2012 15:25 UTC
Legal "File-sharing site The Pirate Bay must be blocked by UK internet service providers, the High Court has ruled. The Swedish website hosts links to download mostly-pirated free music and video. Sky, Everything Everywhere, TalkTalk, O2 and Virgin Media must all prevent their users from accessing the site." Because, as we all know, protecting failing and outdated business models is more important than upholding stodgy old and annoying concepts like 'freedom of speech'. Repeat after me: we live in the free world, not China. Maybe if we say it often enough, we'll start believing it.
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RE[2]: Comment by marcp
by marcp on Mon 30th Apr 2012 21:17 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by marcp"
marcp
Member since:
2007-11-23

First of all - thank you for your extensive response, I appreciate it.

However, I do not think we can compare piracy to prostitution. I - myself - do not support piracy. I also do not support shutting down service with "this whole stuff is illegal" ticket. I do not support taking our freedoms away with "we need to do it, because we fight terrorism" ticket too. I think it's unreasonable, illogical, and - as you kindly mentioned - there is a more inherent and non-removable problem that lies elsewhere: piracy can not be stopped. Why? because piracy is sharing, and sharing is something we do since we evolved from apes.
Some people try to convince us that sharing is bad, where - in fact - sharing is good and constructive. It creates bonds between people, it makes helping other people possible. It widens our horizons, it makes us better people.
Marketing model ... business model ... now, that's what is flawed. That's what needs to change.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[3]: Comment by marcp
by WorknMan on Mon 30th Apr 2012 22:31 in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by marcp"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

I - myself - do not support piracy .... piracy can not be stopped. Why? because piracy is sharing, and sharing is something we do since we evolved from apes.
Some people try to convince us that sharing is bad, where - in fact - sharing is good and constructive.


You say you don't support piracy, but you do support sharing, and you say that sharing is good. Sooooo.... it sounds like you DO support piracy.

But whether you do or don't, that's not really the point. The point is that as long as piracy is illegal, there is a legal justification for shutting down sites like TPB that doesn't apply to other sites like Google. (See my previous example as to why.)

If you want to come out in support for sites like TPB, you have to come out in support of piracy (which is what Thom does). If you want to set up a site for open source/legal files with strict anti-piracy rules, you can run a site like that without being shut down, but that is not what TPB was all about - they don't call it The PIRATE Bay because people are there sharing FOSS software ;)

Edited 2012-04-30 22:32 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: Comment by marcp
by Thom_Holwerda on Mon 30th Apr 2012 22:59 in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by marcp"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

If you want to come out in support for sites like TPB, you have to come out in support of piracy (which is what Thom does).


I don't actually support piracy per se. I support a saner copyright and patent regime, and considering the vested interests have made it impossible for these to change (international treaties are embedded in things like UN/world bank/etc. membership - you can't unsign/depart those without ALSO departing those organisations), we, the people, have the right to ignore them - as we do with any bad laws.

The people have already spoken: sharing is acceptable, and not at all a moral issue. That's how laws get changed. See homosexuality in The Netherlands; it was pretty much accepted and normal for decades before the law finally caught up.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[4]: Comment by marcp
by Alfman on Tue 1st May 2012 04:41 in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by marcp"
Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

WorknMan,

"If you want to come out in support for sites like TPB, you have to come out in support of piracy"

I don't object to your general opinion, but we must emphasize that TPB directory does not actually commit copyright infringement itself, and as for 3rd party infringement, TPB ought to be protected under the safe harbor provisions (unless it's actively promoting infringement). There's no doubt torrent file search tools like TPB can facilitate copyright infringement, but to my knowledge they haven't publicly endorsed or promoted it, have they?

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[4]: Comment by marcp
by marcp on Tue 1st May 2012 06:15 in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by marcp"
marcp Member since:
2007-11-23

You say you don't support piracy, but you do support sharing, and you say that sharing is good. Sooooo.... it sounds like you DO support piracy.

Actually, no. I do support sharing of legal materials. I do not support sharing of unauthorised materials. You see, TPB shows you not only illegal, but also legal materials in your searches. And that's the whole point.

But whether you do or don't, that's not really the point. The point is that as long as piracy is illegal, there is a legal justification for shutting down sites like TPB that doesn't apply to other sites like Google.


And that's the point of view I'm usually deeply concerned about. There is no justification for shutting down the site that share legal materials. TPB shares legal and illegal materials. Why should the users who download legal materials suffer from not being able to download it? this doesn't make any sense.

If you want to come out in support for sites like TPB, you have to come out in support of piracy (which is what Thom does). If you want to set up a site for open source/legal files with strict anti-piracy rules, you can run a site like that without being shut down, but that is not what TPB was all about - they don't call it The PIRATE Bay because people are there sharing FOSS software


Well, not really. You kinda seem to see the whole problem in monochrome, while the whole thing is much more complicated. TPB is just a search engine. It doesn't store any illegal or legal materials itself, as you probobly know. It has clear rules for sharing *legal* materials, but it does not have resources to control every possible file uploaded onto it. You need to remember that the users are responsible for piracy, not the site itself. It is hugely important distinction which seems not to be observable to some people.
The name itself - The *Pirate* Bay - is merely a joke that shows enormous amount of absurd that people put into the whole thing by calling everyone who shares a "pirate" [which is highly inaccurate term: pirates are long gone. Pirates were usually hostile, pirates were interrested in ships, etc].

Best regards!

Reply Parent Score: 3