Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 14th May 2012 18:28 UTC
Apple "I think that Apple could be just as strong and good and be open, but how can you challenge it when a company is making that much money?", Wozniak told a crowd in Sydney, according to ITNews. They'd score so many brownie points the internet would explode.
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Laurence
Member since:
2007-03-26

I'm not sure it does, when I do a search on "cease and desist apple jailbreak" I get nothing related to actual jail breaking and Apple making a problem of it. It seems that their stance on it is that it may void your warranty.

I assure you I'm not making this up:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=jailbreak+criminalise

Being in the app store makes it easier for your product to be found.

I'm not saying they should remove the app store. I'm saying it shouldn't be mandatory. They are two completely different points.


Apple takes care of the hosting and financial bit. Apple just doesn't steal your money, they give something in return.

Not offering consumers nor developers an opt out and actively banning apps that link to sites with their own stores (as they had done with Amazon and Dropbox, to name but two high profile cases) is literally forcing developers to use Apple's own store and pricing model.

Hence why I'd welcome an app store opt out rather than seeing their core products open sourced. In my opinion an open platform is more useful to more people than open source.

No doubt if you don't need to do anything special to install cracked apps more people would install them.

That's pure conjecture and quite honestly the argument of jailbreaking vs cracked software has been done to death on multiple platforms.

As I said before, if people are really that bothered to save < $2 per app, and happy to download from untrusted sources and install god knows what, then jailbreaking is the least of their worries. They'd likely already be jailbroken so Apple are clearly already ineffective at stopping piracy.

So why punish everyone - or more specifically: you're genuine paying customers - for the unpreventable actions of a small few (relatively speaking).

And you want Apple to spend money and recourses to police apps you install outside of their app store? I don't think they'll do that.

You're putting words into my mouth. I never suggested Apple should police 3rd party apps. I'm just saying that the remote nuke option is still there if known trojans are discovered.

However I don't think Apple should even need to do that as if the official app store is an opt out (a point I keep stating and you keep ignoring), then you're also stopping the very stupid from installing such apps and thus putting the onus on the individual when things cock up. And unofficial app stores will likely police their own catalogue of apps else gain a negative reputation (app stores with a negative reputation will thusly be avoided by users).


Furthermore you seem to have bought into this weird belief that Apple's way is the only safe way and anyone that strays from that path is automatically a pirate, and anything outside of Apples ecosystem is full of malware. The world outside of Apple really isn't that grim. ;) So while Apple might make arguments about their walled garden being for users own protection, in reality it's just a way of locking you guys into Apple's pricing structure.

Edited 2012-05-15 11:24 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 5

MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12


I assure you I'm not making this up:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=jailbreak+criminalise


That's their lobby a few years ago to make jail breaking illegal, this is something different than your claim they were sending cease and desist letters.

At least in the US jail breaking is legal.


Not offering consumers nor developers an opt out and actively banning apps that link to sites with their own stores (as they had done with Amazon and Dropbox, to name but two high profile cases) is literally forcing own developers to use Apple's own store and pricing model.

Hence why I'd welcome that over seeing their core products open sourced. As an open platform is more useful to more people than open source.


Well, that's the deal they offer and you can take it or leave for Android, WP or BlackBerry. Don't know about Amazon, but apps with a Dropbox function are back.

That's pure conjecture and quite honestly the argument of jailbreaking vs cracked software has been done to death on multiple platforms.

As I said before, if people are really that bothered to save < $2 per app and happy to download from untrusted sources and install god knows what, then jailbreaking is the least of their worries.

So yeah, you might see a slight incline in the distribution and installation of cracked software if Apple relaxed their stance on jailbreaking, but it would likely be minuscule - far less than what's already around and far to small of an increase to argue that Apples strict anti-jailbreaking rules are an effective anti-piracy measure.


Okay, but what's in it for Apple?


You're putting words into my mouth. I never suggested Apple should police 3rd party apps.

Plus if people install apps outside of any app store (be it official or unofficial), then that's their own responsibility. If the official app store is an opt out (a point I keep stating and you keep ignoring), then you're also stopping the very stupid from installing such apps and thus putting the onus on the individual when things cock up. And unofficial app stores will likely police their own catalogue of apps else gain a negative reputation (app stores with a negative reputation will thusly be avoided by users).


It sounds like your making the whole iOS ecosystem much more complicated and open to malware. Opting in, out, different app stores, so probably different accounts.


You've seem to have bought into this weird belief that Apples way is the only safe way and anyone that strays from that path is automatically a pirate and anything outside of Apples ecosystem is full of malware. The world outside of Apple really isn't that grim ;)


I live in many different worlds, but I'm seeing that Apple is making loads of money so it's hard to claim they are doing it wrong. Any iDiot can use an iPhone and figure out how everything works. Most people prefer simple, why complicate it? Apparently iOS users are more active users of their device than other users. I think complicated devices don't motivate users to use them.

Your suggestions complicates the situation and doesn't offer Apple any benefits. Why should they do this while gaining nothing in return?

Reply Parent Score: 2

Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26


That's their lobby a few years ago to make jail breaking illegal, this is something different than your claim they were sending cease and desist letters.

At least in the US jail breaking is legal.

Actually I claimed both things and made the biggest emphasis on this particular item. And this item alone backs up my argument that Apple are proactively trying to control how people use their own hardware.

As for the cease and desist letters, they have definitely happened as I remember a wiki getting taken down after receiving one. However once the site goes offline (as it does when people stop visiting due to the core content being removed), the evidence you want goes with it. Which is probably why your search came up blank.


Well, that's the deal they offer and you can take it or leave for Android, WP or BlackBerry. Don't know about Amazon, but apps with a Dropbox function are back.

If we were talking about Microsoft people would cry foul. But because it's a cool company making desirable products then it's OK?


Okay, but what's in it for Apple?

A better platform? People jailbreak because they find the app store's restrictions oppressive. You only have to look at the number of cool apps outside of the official app store to see how intrusive Apple's T&Cs are.


I live in many different worlds, but I'm seeing that Apple is making loads of money so it's hard to claim they are doing it wrong.

Where did I say that? Seriously, where?
Please, for the love of God, stop making shit up and stating they're my arguments.

I'm not accusing Apple for doing it wrong. Goggle have a very different business model and I don't think they're doing it wrong either. All I'm asking is Apple relax their obsessive grip over the entire ecosystem and allow paying customers to use their device without being criminalised for it.


Any iDiot can use an iPhone and figure out how everything works. Most people prefer simple, why complicate it? Apparently iOS users are more active users of their device than other users. I think complicated devices don't motivate users to use them.

Your suggestions complicates the situation and doesn't offer Apple any benefits. Why should they do this while gaining nothing in return?

Do you not understand the concept of "opt out"? It means users have a normal platform and more advanced users who know what they're doing and specifically choose to can then do so with the minimum of fuss. The alternative you offer means users have to jailbreak their hardware - which is MASSIVELY more complicated than an opt out.

So your own argument is a contradiction.


It sounds like your making the whole iOS ecosystem much more complicated and open to malware. Opting in, out, different app stores, so probably different accounts.

Yeah, lets just ignore ***EVERYTHING*** I've just posted and revert back to your same ignorant opinion shall we? *rolleyes*

I don't suppose there's any chance of you actually meeting in the middle with some of these arguments, or is that against the EULA you agreed to when signing up for iZealot?

This is also why fanboys (in any camp, not just Apple nutjobs) are essentially just bigots. It seems fail to budge on any single point - regardless of how insignificant that point might be. For once it would be nice for an Apple fan to say "Yes, I agree that xyz is a little naff / whatever" even if they just go on to say "but personally I don't mind that" or "for me the other benefits out way it's faults". Hell, I've been more than reasonable in this discussion as if we're supposed to be playing up to our stereotypes then I should be calling for Apple to release all their code as GPLv3. But even as a full time Linux user I know such ideologies are retarded and have even stated that Apple are better off keeping the code itself closed. So why can't you guys acknowledge good points when raised in friendly discussions? As all I ever get is BS spin or just ignored completely.

It's no fscking wonder Apple arguments on here nearly always end up in stalemate given that everyone is to damn proud to credit a good rebuttal.

</rant>

Edited 2012-05-15 12:23 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3