Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 21st May 2012 20:03 UTC
Windows For Microsoft, the traditional desktop is old news. It's on its way out, it's legacy, and the harder they claim the desktop has equal rights, the sillier it becomes. With companies, words are meaningless, it's actions that matter, and here Microsoft's actions tell the real story. The company has announced the product line-up for Visual Studio 11, and the free Express can no longer be used to create desktop applications. Message is clear.
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RE[2]: Your are right, Thom
by l3v1 on Tue 22nd May 2012 06:24 UTC in reply to "RE: Your are right, Thom"
l3v1
Member since:
2005-07-06

Err Visual Studio Express being Metro only, does not mean you can't run Matlab or whatever on Windows 8.


Uhmm, because Matlab equals science? Oh my. While there are fields where Matlab could do everything (I highly doubt that), there are a lot, where it's just not enough. E.g. almost all of our coding is for scientific purposes, yet if I would need to add all my Matlab use in a year, it would most certainly be less than a month. We can't drop Windows coding, since most of our colleagues live only in Windows-land, some of us gradually move most of our coding (99% c++) to Linux. Why? Performance, stability (including less idiotic changes), and c++ compilers and good editors won't go away anytime soon.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[3]: Your are right, Thom
by BlackV on Tue 22nd May 2012 07:00 in reply to "RE[2]: Your are right, Thom"
BlackV Member since:
2012-04-23

Well, command-line tools provided by Windows SDK aren't going away. And they are provided for free, including C/C++ MSVC compilers. No IDE, yep. But if you need IDE you can find one beside MSVS. There are SharpDevelop for .net development and I think it is possible to use Eclipse CDT with MSVC.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: Your are right, Thom
by gilboa on Tue 22nd May 2012 08:53 in reply to "RE[3]: Your are right, Thom"
gilboa Member since:
2005-07-06

Well, command-line tools provided by Windows SDK aren't going away. And they are provided for free, including C/C++ MSVC compilers. No IDE, yep. But if you need IDE you can find one beside MSVS. There are SharpDevelop for .net development and I think it is possible to use Eclipse CDT with MSVC.


While in general you are correct that cl.exe / link.exe is available as a part of the Windows SDK, MS' C/C++ compiler has been more-or-less neglected in last ~5+ years, while both GCC and LLVM-clang have been quick to advance.
A couple of months ago I compile a piece of cross platform DPI software using both GCC-MinGW (4.6) and VS2K10 and in most aspects, GCC was 10-15% faster.
Keep in mind that in-order to maintain VS2KX compatibility the code doesn't include GCC specific optimizations (E.g. macros w/ return value) that could further increase the gap.

- Gilboa

Edited 2012-05-22 08:54 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[4]: Your are right, Thom
by malxau on Tue 22nd May 2012 12:09 in reply to "RE[3]: Your are right, Thom"
malxau Member since:
2005-12-04

Well, command-line tools provided by Windows SDK aren't going away. And they are provided for free, including C/C++ MSVC compilers...


Actually...

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/hardware/hh852363.aspx

"The Windows SDK no longer ships with a complete command-line build environment. The Windows SDK now requires a compiler and build environment to be installed separately."

Reply Parent Score: 5