Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 8th Jun 2012 23:07 UTC
Hardware, Embedded Systems Two weeks ago, my grandmother passed away - the last grandparent I had left. As those of you with experience in dealing with deceased family members know, the funeral is only the start; the next part is taking care of the deceased's affairs, which includes going through all their belongings to determine what to do with them. I took care of my grandmother's extensive book collection, and while doing so, I hit something that fascinated me to no end: a six-volume Christian Encyclopaedia from 1956. In it, I found something I just had to share with OSNews.
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Sorry for the religious discussion
by 3rdalbum on Sat 9th Jun 2012 04:40 UTC
3rdalbum
Member since:
2008-05-26

A quick disclaimer: I'm an ex-Christian, with a partner who is Christian.

Mostly in America, but partly in other countries, are groups of people who I call "New Jews". They claim to be Catholics or Baptists or other sorts of Christians but they seem to completely miss the message.

There's a passage in the New Testament where the character of Jesus basically says that he's wiping away all the laws and teachings of the past, and replacing them with one: "Love one another as the Lord loves you".

All through the New Testament are references to God loving everybody, and being an object of love rather than an object of fear.

The New Jews miss this entirely. They use God as an excuse to say "We're loved, and you are hated". They miss the sentiment that "Love one another" is the only rule, and instead they backtrack to the Old Testament's laws that no longer matter in the Christian world.

That's why I call them New Jews - they believe in the existence of Christ, and call themselves Christians, but prefer to ignore his teachings in favour of the old Jewish teachings and rules. New Jews "fear God", Christians love God. New Jews say "God hates you because you are X", Christians say "God loves you no matter who you are".

It's little surprise to me that your Christian Encyclopedia from 1950s Europe is so accepting of evolution. Christianity says that the Old Testament isn't necessarily the truth, or relevant, or important anymore. After the start of more enlightened times, but before the New Jews came along with their firebrand of extremism, Christians were quite accepting of science.

Just to reiterate, though, I'm no longer a Christian (so don't start calling me that!) but I do have a Christian partner who I take to church. I see practical Christianity at work every week, basically.

Reply Score: 4

Fergy Member since:
2006-04-10

There's a passage in the New Testament where the character of Jesus basically says that he's wiping away all the laws and teachings of the past, and replacing them with one: "Love one another as the Lord loves you".

There is also a passage where Jesus says he didn't come to abolish any of the rules of the old testament.

You can get anything from the bible if you want to. You should view it as an interesting book that shows a lot of how people throughout the ages thought about things. You should not treat it as an encyclopedia.

Reply Parent Score: 3

3rdalbum Member since:
2008-05-26

You should view it as an interesting book that shows a lot of how people throughout the ages thought about things. You should not treat it as an encyclopedia.


I assume when you say "you", you mean "people". I wanted to clarify yet again that I'm not a Christian, and therefore treat the Bible's contents as being an order of magnitude less reliable than Wikipedia :-)

I don't remember the passage about "I haven't come to abolish the laws of the Old Testament". A bible reference would be handy for me if you have one available.

And again sorry for starting a bit of a religious discussion on OSnews.

To bring things back toward their correct topic, this encyclopedia entry has come at just the right time. I've been re-reading Steven Levy's book "Hackers", the opening part of which is set only a few years after that encyclopedia entry. In the book Hackers there is discussion about chess-playing programs, so it's really quite telling that Chess was singled-out as a very computer-solvable problem, even as some people were claiming that computers would never be able to beat adults.

Reply Parent Score: 3

Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

Jesus said he "came not to abolish the law, but to fulfil it" (Mat5:17); in a sense the old law lead up to the new law. The purpose of the old law was to prepare the Jews for Christ, whom they rejected. No, the old law no longer _applies_ to us, because the Jews at the time had taken the law so far away from it's meaning ("you make the law a burden upon the people") by following the letters and not the meaning. Jesus did away with the law by returning it to it's spirit meaning Mat22:37-40 "...On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets"

The old testament and new testament run in parallels. The first half of the Bible is about the physical, the second half is spiritual. The first half is about what happened to provide examples, the second half is about what sort of person you should be.

Reply Parent Score: 5

spudley99 Member since:
2009-03-25

"There's a passage in the New Testament where the character of Jesus basically says that he's wiping away all the laws and teachings of the past, and replacing them with one: "Love one another as the Lord loves you".

There is also a passage where Jesus says he didn't come to abolish any of the rules of the old testament.

You can get anything from the bible if you want to. You should view it as an interesting book that shows a lot of how people throughout the ages thought about things. You should not treat it as an encyclopedia.
"

Uh, the encyclopedia we're talking about is a separate book.

But re the passage you mention: Jesus actually says "I have not come to abolish the Law but to fulfill it." This is a very key point for Christians, and basically says what @3rdalbum said which you replied to. You got it wrong because you only quoted half of the sentence.

In these things, context is everything; most of the wacky sects and cults out there start this way by taking a quote from the bible (or wherever) out of context, and making a big thing of it.

Reply Parent Score: 2

neutralTTY Member since:
2012-01-12

Hi (excuse for my poor english).

When you (and people) say "The Christians" or "The New Jews", and after you say things like "They use God as an excuse to say "We're loved, and you are hated". " it's not a problem about the religion or about the faith, but it's a problem about the people (as individual human).

It's like talking about killers (there are christians, muslims, atheists). Or talking about scientifics or inteligents.

There are a film from Bollywood called "My name is Khan" that provides for this situation.

The mother of Khan say him: "There are no *** and no muslims, there only have good people and bad people" (it's not the best film but it's a good one, you can saw that).

So the problem with the human race is when we confuse between honestity (good/bad) with our beliefs (beliefs I'm not refering to religion, like atehists are believers to their belief: no gods) and then we create perjudice to some groups of people.

With religion is the same, you can interpret or misinterpret the same way a mathematician or scientifics interpret or misinterpret theirs formulas. But the misinterpretation don't made us bad or good ones. It's only an individual problem. It's why there can be people that hate other people that don't are like us, because they have a problem perhaps of education, but I think it's not a problem about religion. The same way that a governor (independent about their religion) can make the war to other people even with fake proofs only for personal interests, There can be group of religious people doing the same.




A liked the entry because is talking about the history of the computers with a personal point of view, it was very interesting, and about the 50's!! I don't have anything as old as that to check about computers.

My condolance to yours.

Edited 2012-06-09 08:01 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

tidux Member since:
2011-08-13

I think they're sort of the religious equivalent of hipsters - most actual Jewish folks, like my family, moved on from the hateful stuff years ago. What the "New Jews" as you call them don't get, is that the "we are loved and you are hated" message was designed to lift the spirits of a people that was collectively fucked over for millenia. It was never meant to apply to a ruling class.

Reply Parent Score: 2

zima Member since:
2005-07-06

the character of Jesus basically says that he's wiping away all the laws and teachings of the past, and replacing them with one: "Love one another as the Lord loves you".
All through the New Testament are references to God loving everybody, and being an object of love rather than an object of fear. [...] "Love one another" is the only rule [...] "God loves you no matter who you are"

And the very same New Testament introduces hell (where you're sent also for quite petty reasons) - that worst, most terrifying monstrosity ever imagined by humans. Such a nice, loving guy...
(at most it just shows more how hypocritical that particular deity is, on top of being generally evil
http://groups.google.com/group/net.religion/msg/30925fd2c9a20cbd?
http://groups.google.com/group/net.origins/msg/ca73e0fd518a23f8
what kind of deity wouldn't even mention anything about proper hygiene, boiling of water, microscopic pathogens and their implications? NVM no mention of microorganisms in general - the dominating form of life on this planet, by biomass; human body containing an order of magnitude more bacterial cells than human ones)

Christianity says that the Old Testament isn't necessarily the truth, or relevant, or important anymore.

Yet, somehow, large part of weekly church homilies is focused around Old Testament myths, letting them stand on their own...


But overall, yeah, only minority (when counted by the number of adherents, not by group listing no matter how small each is) of Christian sects have some silly prejudices against science (which, BTW, seems to be essentially... blasphemous - since it accuses their deity of lying in holy texts; while via the world, nature around us, it says something quite different)


For example... the Catholic Church (which, while ridiculous in many ways - standing behind BS mythologies not even being nearly the worst - did also greatly contribute to preservation and progress of science; even if with some hiccups along the way), the largest Christian sect (close to half), is quite accommodating to evolution:

http://www.newadvent.org/library/docs_jp02tc.htm Truth Cannot Contradict Truth (in context, one of those truths are the conclusions reached by evolutionary theory) Address of Pope John Paul II to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences (quite worthwhile read - though, with 6., they're in for a surprise WRT to modern neuroscience, its tools like fMRI, exploring what "free" will and such mean)

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_document... by International Theological Commission, the body advising the pope - particularly "Adam is the symbol" and whole point 63.

Or the Vatican astronomer, Jesuit George Coyne: "Intelligent design isn't science even though it pretends to be. If you want to teach it in schools, intelligent design should be taught when religion or cultural history is taught, not science"


PS. Really, coining such poor taste neologisms like in your post, 3rdalbum, doesn't serve anything.

Edited 2012-06-10 11:57 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

3rdalbum Member since:
2008-05-26

PS. Really, coining such poor taste neologisms like in your post, 3rdalbum, doesn't serve anything.


Merely using the word "Jew" is racist, even though I'm using it to describe a set of people whose beliefs seem to be similar to those of Jewish people, except probably a bit more extreme? Wow. I guess I've learnt my lesson.

Otherwise, your post seems a little difficult to follow.

Also, I'll just point out that the concept of "hell" in the Bible is obviously apocryphal and really describes what happened to an infected corpse during one of the Dark Ages or Middle Ages epidemics (was taken outside the city, placed in a large hole and burnt). Any references to hell were added in subsequent centuries. Obviously. As an earlier poster said, you can't treat the Bible as an encyclopedia; that's another difference between reasonable Christians and the New Jews.

Reply Parent Score: 2

saimon69 Member since:
2008-10-26

Maybe you mean "New Pharisees", that might be more appropriate?

Reply Parent Score: 1

David Member since:
1997-10-01

You might want to consider the term "New Parisees."

Reply Parent Score: 1