Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 20th Jun 2012 00:40 UTC, submitted by rohan_p
Amiga & AROS "Icaros Desktop is an effort to build a modern Amiga-compatible operating system for standard x86 hardware. It's a distribution built atop AROS, which is an open source effort to create a system compatible at the API level with the AmigaOS 3.x series. I recently had a chat to the creator of Icaros, Paolo Besser, about the creation of the OS and why Amiga continues to inspire people today."
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RE[9]: Hmmm
by MOS6510 on Wed 20th Jun 2012 11:35 UTC in reply to "RE[8]: Hmmm"
MOS6510
Member since:
2011-05-12

But we're wondering here about overall dynamics, right?... you manoeuvre around addressing the relative rarity (not absolute lack - you don't have to say "oh, but I had one / serious stuff") of extras on 2nd hand market.


I'm just wondering how you could live without an extra disk drive. It seems just like me that Sauron also only knew Amiga users with an extra disk drive.

Buying one was the most obvious thing one would do.


Here disks were mostly shared BTW.


Here we copied them, using an extra disk drive.


"Okay, if you only played single disk games you wouldn't need an extra drive.

That's also something I didn't say - but great many (perhaps most) games simply were single-disk...
"

I'll change it to: If someone only played single disk games someone wouldn't need an extra drive.


"Well, that's easy: they are build in. IIRC only the Amiga 500 "needed" this expansion, later Amiga's had more memory and a build in battery powered clock.

Oh, now you're moving goalposts (so, what, previously "all bought [...] the 512 KB memory upgrade which also featured a battery powered clock" but now suddenly most didn't need those?) and you're not entirely right (600 didn't have RTC, 500+ was short-lived)
"
[/q]

You were wondering why memory expansions didn't get lost. I explained that they, unlike external drives, are mounted inside the Amiga. This is done once and it was done over 20 years ago. So it's not likely (a it gets lost (b people still know it's there.

Nobody bought the Amiga 600. The Amiga 1200 was the natural upgrade for the Amiga 500 and the Amiga 1200 didn't need an extra card with memory and a clock.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[10]: Hmmm
by zima on Wed 20th Jun 2012 12:36 in reply to "RE[9]: Hmmm"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

I'm just wondering how you could live without an extra disk drive. It seems just like me that Sauron also only knew Amiga users with an extra disk drive.

Buying one was the most obvious thing one would do.

You could hardly even get one in many places... I said few times already I had never even seen one, live - well, OK, maybe apart from the CDTV of my buddy, but that's only because this model didn't have internal floppy in the first place ;) - and IIRC that drive was quite expensive (rich bastard, gloating such things ;p ), comparable to the entire 500 or 600 set.

That usually high prices of any add-ons contributing to the situation (virtually nobody had any C64 FDD for the same reason) - and while you say "I was a poor kid and I had an extra drive. It really was worth the money" you might quite possibly not appreciate that you weren't poor at all - not in comparison to kids in areas much less affluent than the Netherlands.

It might be also responsible, I guess, for that copying vs sharing thing - even blank floppies would be quite expensive, might as well spread the costs.

And, again, it was far from "the most obvious thing one would do" - if you rationalise it specifically like that, it makes your view... suspect. Again (apart from the above cost considerations) - Amigas worked, generally, perfectly fine with only their built-in drive.

I'll change it to: If someone only played single disk games someone wouldn't need an extra drive.

That still misses the point. Closer would be: many (most?) great Amiga games were single-floppy anyway, so 2nd drive would just gather dust large part (most?) of the time ...while significantly exhausting your pocket money.

You were wondering why memory expansions didn't get lost.

No I didn't. I wondered why they are absent to a similar degree, why they evidently did get lost (they shouldn't - as you say, losing them is much harder)

Nobody bought the Amiga 600. The Amiga 1200 was the natural upgrade for the Amiga 500 and the Amiga 1200 didn't need an extra card with memory and a clock.

That is
1) extrapolation of your local bubble without 2nd thought (~half or even most people had 600 here, for example; we're talking about quite high numbers... with my <30 people class, ~4 people had them - and quickly checking now with few ex-Amigan IM buddies scattered across the country, they report similar rates; 600 flopped in "original" Amiga markets, not offering anything above 500, but was quite popular where Amiga craze started and died much later; anyway, it did better than 500+)

2) red herring - sure, "1200 was the natural upgrade" but it flopped - people largely just stayed with "baseline" Amigas.
As was the case, I suspect, with 2nd drives - in large scale dynamics (vs "one of the first things people bought was an extra disk drive" suggesting it was basically universal)

Edited 2012-06-20 12:44 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[11]: Hmmm
by MOS6510 on Wed 20th Jun 2012 12:50 in reply to "RE[10]: Hmmm"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

I think the difference in our experiences is that you live in a place where things were very different than they were here.

Here every C64 user had a disk drive. Early adopters didn't have one at first, but after a while everyone had at least one, because it was the natural thing to do. Just like an extra disk drive, which everybody Sauron and I knew had. Just like the 512 kB upgrade as more and more games demanded 1 MB of RAM.

For doing serious stuff, copying disks and multi-disk games an extra disk drive made a lot of difference. If you didn't you would often get in to a situation where the Amiga would ask you to swap disks multiple times before something happened.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[10]: Hmmm
by olafg on Wed 20th Jun 2012 17:26 in reply to "RE[9]: Hmmm"
olafg Member since:
2010-05-27

nah, some had extra drives, but not most. I think most purchased th 512KB expansion. disk copy programs would read the entire disk to memory before swapping. I did buy the HD though. The Amigas were more or less crushed by PCs when the A1200 became available.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[11]: Hmmm
by MOS6510 on Wed 20th Jun 2012 19:33 in reply to "RE[10]: Hmmm"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

A hard disk beats any number of disk drives.

I played Ultima VI on disk first, walk in any direction 8 steps and the disk would load. When I played from hard disk the activity light would blink for an instant and that was it.

Reply Parent Score: 2