Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 19th Jul 2012 18:32 UTC
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless Nokia just posted its quarterly results - including shipped devices - and it's not looking good. Massive losses, sales dropping, and no growth in Lumia sales in the US. The company is losing money hand-over-fist, and with Windows Phone 8 still months away, the company warns the next quarter will be just as bad.
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RE[3]: Well...
by B. Janssen on Sun 22nd Jul 2012 13:43 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Well..."
B. Janssen
Member since:
2006-10-11

Nokia is fighting the wrong war. They fight for ecosystem market share rather then for Nokia market share. They cannot win that war but only lose cause even when WP wins Samsung and HTC are still there but on WP rather then Android (in fact Samsung and HTC sell WP7 devices cause they are not so stupid to fight the wrong war).


That's an astute observation, but it also means that Nokia could have only escaped the relegation to mere handset maker by staying on a self-owned platform. If Nokia went with Android they would be an Android one-trick-pony instead of a WP one and fight for the Android platform. To escape this lockdown they would have to offer both, Android and WP handsets. This would mean that Nokia becomes something like another Samsung. Now, that doesn't look too bad at first glance, but 1. that's not what Nokia thinks it is and 2. that's not what Nokia can be.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[4]: Well...
by chithanh on Sun 22nd Jul 2012 15:21 in reply to "RE[3]: Well..."
chithanh Member since:
2006-06-18

That's an astute observation, but it also means that Nokia could have only escaped the relegation to mere handset maker by staying on a self-owned platform. If Nokia went with Android they would be an Android one-trick-pony instead of a WP one and fight for the Android platform. To escape this lockdown they would have to offer both, Android and WP handsets. This would mean that Nokia becomes something like another Samsung. Now, that doesn't look too bad at first glance, but 1. that's not what Nokia thinks it is and 2. that's not what Nokia can be.

I don't think that Nokia would have been forced to do that.

At the time when Elop took over, Nokia was bigger than Samsung. And Samsung offers Android, Bada, WP7 and soon Tizen smartphones.

So there is no reason why Nokia couldn't offer Android, MeeGo, Symbian and WP7. The addition of their navigation and cloud services would have been enough to distinguish them from the crowd. They could even offer MeeGo and Android on the same hardware thanks to the Linux kernel.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[5]: Well...
by cdude on Mon 23rd Jul 2012 10:00 in reply to "RE[4]: Well..."
cdude Member since:
2008-09-21

Exactly. Also the investment into MeeGo was done. The product was finished and ready to be shipped.
Looking at nitdroid, Android at N9, it also did not take much resources to bring Android to the N9/Lumia hardware.
All they would have to do is to ship the phones and take the money customers where willing to pay.
As some carriers wrote: Lumia would have sold better when running Android rather then WP. Amen.

Edited 2012-07-23 10:01 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[5]: Well...
by B. Janssen on Tue 24th Jul 2012 09:59 in reply to "RE[4]: Well..."
B. Janssen Member since:
2006-10-11

At the time when Elop took over, Nokia was bigger than Samsung. And Samsung offers Android, Bada, WP7 and soon Tizen smartphones.

Even at Nokia's best times Samsung was many times larger than Nokia. Granted, Nokia was bigger in the mobile phone space, but Nokia is essentially a mobile phone company only. Samsung on the other hand is a multinational conglomerate with strong horizontal and vertical diversification, which also explains why Nokia can't be another Samsung.

So there is no reason why Nokia couldn't offer Android, MeeGo, Symbian and WP7. The addition of their navigation and cloud services would have been enough to distinguish them from the crowd. They could even offer MeeGo and Android on the same hardware thanks to the Linux kernel.


There are many reasons why Nokia can't and shouldn't do that but the most important one is that Nokia, compared to Samsung, has very limited resources. Thus, unlike Samsung Nokia cannot afford to scatter their resources over several platforms, especially if you intend to become the leader/owner of one of them, and hope that one of the many attempts sticks. They had to choose where to concentrate their effort. The question is, why did they chose WP?

From the outside this is hard to judge. I can think of a few good reasons why, but from the outside there seem to be equally good reasons to stick with the "Qt GUI on Meego/Symbian" strategy. For one, a jump to "Qt on Android" would have been much easier. But I'm not privy to that kind of information, so probably there is more to it.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[5]: Well...
by zima on Thu 26th Jul 2012 23:59 in reply to "RE[4]: Well..."
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

At the time when Elop took over, Nokia was bigger than Samsung. And Samsung offers Android, Bada, WP7 and soon Tizen smartphones.

So there is no reason why Nokia couldn't offer Android, MeeGo, Symbian and WP7. The addition of their navigation and cloud services would have been enough to distinguish them from the crowd.

Nokia sold more phone units than Samsung, yes, but at the time Elop took over Nokia was already on a few-year-long downward spiral ...plus it wasn't strictly bigger, in any sense that really matters. The returns from R&D were among the worst, as were profits per handset (and NVM that Nokia didn't make its components - it was specifically Samsung often doing it for them).

Symbian was a horrendous sink of funds (R&D costs of Symbian alone were larger, 2-3 years ago or so, than the entire Apple R&D budget, with quite mediocre results), only small part of what Nokia sold and with very unimpressive, relative to other industry players, profits per handset. MeeGo similar, only worse... (the project ran for much longer than iPhone is around; and still wasn't quite in a fully finished state) Nokia "cloud services" - hardly anybody used them, most eventually closed down. And their navigation, while fine, is hardly unique now.
Maybe Nokia just wasn't so good at doing software... (whether WP exclusivity was a good choice over Android is another issue of course)

Edited 2012-07-27 00:17 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2