Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sun 26th Aug 2012 10:28 UTC
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless In light of the jury verdict in Apple vs. Samsung, the one-liners and jokes flew back and forth. One in particular, by Dan Frakes, has been copied and pasted all over the web, and it goes like this: "When the iPhone debuted, it was widely criticized for having no buttons/keys. Now people think the iPhone's design is 'obvious'." This is a very common trend in this entire debate that saddens me to no end: the iPhone is being compared to simple feature phones, while in fact, it should be compared to its true predecessor: the PDA. PDAs have always done with few buttons.
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RE[7]: Revisionist History
by galvanash on Mon 27th Aug 2012 17:05 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Revisionist History"
galvanash
Member since:
2006-01-25

Here's actual coverage of CES '93 saying the Zoomer wasn't out yet:

http://www.caruso.com/work/dm-index/digital-media-june-1993/more-vi...

Here's a book on the history of Palm by Andrea Butler and David Pogue saying that it was slated to launch in '92 but they didn't get prototypes until the spring of '93 and that it was shown for the first time at CES in 1993:

http://books.google.com/books?id=lsFHU305YL0C&pg=PA47&lpg=P...


Read carefully... There is more than one CES within a given year. The June CES was the summer CES. The Tandy Zoomer was demonstrated again at that CES. But it was _also demonstrated at the Winter CES (1st week of January 1993) and also at a few international trade events in Dec of 1992.

http://www.caruso.com/work/dm-index/digital-media-january-1993/news...

They actually shipped (as in available to customers) within months of each other. I distinctly remember seeing a Zoomer at Radio Shack when it was released - and at the time I was waiting for the MessagePad to become available.

I don't have proof. I have never been able to find an actual release date for the Zoomer, just generalities.

Regardless, it was demonstrated successfully first to the public as a complete product. Not by much - it doesn't really matter. They are close enough together that I don't think it is really fair to say that either one of "beat" the other to market. I simply refer to the Zoomer as being first as a jab at Apple because everyone else says the Newton MessagePad was - its meaningless in both instances.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[8]: Revisionist History
by jared_wilkes on Mon 27th Aug 2012 17:28 in reply to "RE[7]: Revisionist History"
jared_wilkes Member since:
2011-04-25

I've read my links, I don't see anything about "AGAIN." The word doesn't appear in the first link in any context. In fact, did you read that Hawkins/Palm got their hands on the first prototype in Spring? Did you miss the part where the Newton was demoed in Summer '92?

They actually shipped (as in available to customers) within months of each other. I distinctly remember seeing a Zoomer at Radio Shack when it was released - and at the time I was waiting for the MessagePad to become available.


I acknowledged that the Zoomer was released first. But it wasn't demonstrated until well after the Newton had been (the summer of '92 vs. the summer of '93). Read carefully....

I don't have proof.


Correct

Regardless, it was demonstrated successfully first to the public as a complete product.


Hawkins himself and several sources disagree with you.

They are close enough together that I don't think it is really fair to say that either one of "beat" the other to market. I simply refer to the Zoomer as being first as a jab at Apple because everyone else says the Newton MessagePad was - its meaningless in both instances.


It's good to know that you are just trolling and can be ignored. Seriously? You admit that this is horrible evidence but you use it anyway because you like to poke people with sticks... Sad.

Edited 2012-08-27 17:37 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[9]: Revisionist History
by galvanash on Mon 27th Aug 2012 19:46 in reply to "RE[8]: Revisionist History"
galvanash Member since:
2006-01-25

I've read my links, I don't see anything about "AGAIN." The word doesn't appear in the first link in any context. In fact, did you read that Hawkins/Palm got their hands on the first prototype in Spring? Did you miss the part where the Newton was demoed in Summer '92?


Frankly, I don't know which source is right... But you didn't read the link that I posted:

...Both Tandy/Casio and Apple/Sharp gave product updates to the press at winter CES last week, showing working prototypes of the new devices but revealing precious little in the way of specifics.


Winter CES was Jan 1993 in Las Vegas. The link YOU posted was about Summer CES in Chicago, which was June 1993. They are both from the same author.

I acknowledged that the Zoomer was released first. But it wasn't demonstrated until well after the Newton had been (the summer of '92 vs. the summer of '93). Read carefully....


Well it would be Summer 92 vs Winter 92 if they in fact did present a prototype at the Winter CES show as stated in the link I posted. But I do know that Apple's Summer 92 demo was just that - a demo. It was not a fully working prototype, it was an instrumented demo.

http://lowendmac.com/orchard/06/john-sculley-newton-origin.html

Apple rented space to show off the MessagePad in Chicago. All of the MessagePads were tethered to Macs - they were too unreliable to run independently.


That was Summer 92. The demo they did for Winter 92 (Las Vegas) was not instrumented. If the Winter 92 Zoomer prototypes (assuming they did in fact exist) were fully fleshed out, then they were demoed independently at the same event. But I have never been able to find out any more about the supposed Zoomer demo done at Winter 92 CES
- so it may well be a moot point.

Hawkins himself and several sources disagree with you.


Again, sources differ. That is why I still say it doesn't much matter - they were essentially developed and released in tandem. But Ill concede that the book reference you gave is likely more correct than a couple of random internet quotes I have run across over the years. I was not aware of the book to be honest.

Just stressing I was NOT trolling - I was posting information I thought to be accurate. Maybe its not, sorry about that.

It's good to know that you are just trolling and can be ignored. Seriously? You admit that this is horrible evidence but you use it anyway because you like to poke people with sticks... Sad.


Im not trolling. I was making a point. It is just as "correct" to say one or the other came first (even ignoring discrepancies in information). The newton was disclosed to the public first, but the Zoomer was technically available first in retail. I prefer to say the Zoomer was "first" because everyone else ignores it ever existed...

Either point of view is correct, and if you feel like I am poking you with a stick Im sorry.

Reply Parent Score: 2