Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 24th Sep 2012 17:19 UTC
Legal "A leaked document from the CleanIT project shows just how far internal discussions in that initiative have drifted away from its publicly stated aims, as well as the most fundamental legal rules that underpin European democracy and the rule of law. The European Commission-funded CleanIT project claims that it wants to fight terrorism through voluntary self-regulatory measures that defends the rule of law. The initial meetings of the initiative, with their directionless and ill-informed discussions about doing 'something' to solve unidentified online 'terrorist' problems were mainly attended by filtering companies, who saw an interesting business opportunity. Their work has paid off, with numerous proposals for filtering by companies and governments, proposals for liability in case sufficiently intrusive filtering is not used, and calls for increased funding by governments of new filtering technologies." I'll just leave a link here to one of the most popular OSNews articles of all time.
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RE: Fascism returns!!!
by HangLoose on Mon 24th Sep 2012 18:09 UTC in reply to "Fascism returns!!!"
HangLoose
Member since:
2007-09-03

While in EU this sort of things need to be done behind close doors not to anger the population, in USA everything is done in name of "freedom" and "liberty". Openly! And everyone applauds it because peopled dont want to be like the "socialists from Europe".

Some of them:
-NSA Call database and warrant less surveillance
-USA Patriot/Homeland Security/etc Act
-Indiscriminate use of NSLs
-Plus the good old MPAA/RIAA/etc lobbying in congress.

Having said that, I am NOT defending EU if this horrendous piece of legislation ever sees the light of day. But before it comes in effect it is one more "attempt" that should be blocked by our representatives.

Reply Parent Score: 10

RE[2]: Fascism returns!!!
by the_trapper on Mon 24th Sep 2012 21:27 in reply to "RE: Fascism returns!!!"
the_trapper Member since:
2005-07-07

Just to clarify, I was definitely being tongue-in-cheek with that. As a member of the United States armed forces it sickens me to no end what has come of our freedoms in America post 9/11.

It's even more frightening that Mitt Romney is actually a viable presidential candidate, and even if he loses the best we can hope for is 4 more years of Obama. Depressing times.

Reply Parent Score: 8

RE[3]: Fascism returns!!!
by WereCatf on Tue 25th Sep 2012 02:36 in reply to "RE[2]: Fascism returns!!!"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

Just to clarify, I was definitely being tongue-in-cheek with that. As a member of the United States armed forces it sickens me to no end what has come of our freedoms in America post 9/11.

It's even more frightening that Mitt Romney is actually a viable presidential candidate, and even if he loses the best we can hope for is 4 more years of Obama. Depressing times.


I like to sometimes play around with the idea of what would happen if I were to become a president candidate, what with me being pansexual, polyamorous, having a bunch of health-issues, being long-time unemployed, having been at the brink of alcoholism, gone through serious depression, I know absolutely f*ck all about politics and I don't give a flying f*ck about the wishes of corporations if those wishes clash with the needs of the public or myself, plus I'm a fat loser who spends most of her time in front of a computer. How things play around here in Finland I might actually have a chance of winning the elections just on the basis of having lots in common with your Average Joe and standing so starkly apart from the other candidates!

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[3]: Fascism returns!!!
by Fennec_Fox on Tue 25th Sep 2012 17:43 in reply to "RE[2]: Fascism returns!!!"
Fennec_Fox Member since:
2006-10-30

As a matter of personal opinion, this is a direct consequence of a 2-party system. Such rigid setting automaticaly results in a boolean choice - there is no middle-ground, 3rd alternative (real one), etc. "Fuzzy logic" concept is not permitted. Polarization / confrontation is built into the system. Red and Blue can not and will not work together. By definition.

Under these conditions, defeating the opponent becomes the ultimate goal in itself - everything else is secondary. It is more evident in Republican philosophy, where all proposals from the Democrats, - however constructive and sensible they might be, - are automatically rejected, opposed, blocked, filibustered for one reason only - they came from the "other" camp, therefore we will fight them. Full stop. Dems are better at compromizing, but just barely.

Time to change the entire polytical system, non? ;)

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[3]: Fascism returns!!!
by zima on Mon 1st Oct 2012 22:53 in reply to "RE[2]: Fascism returns!!!"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

As a member of the United States armed forces it sickens me to no end what has come of our freedoms in America post 9/11.

That seems like a weird construct, way of saying it - I mean, the connection between one and the other is... well, not a long time ago, polls showed that a majority of US soldiers still thought that Iraq had anything to do with 9/11 (so, myths of the kind which brought that "what has come of our freedoms" cherished by members of the biggest stick in the world ...and who do you think will crack down any major "civil disorder" in the US?)

Edited 2012-10-01 22:54 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Fascism returns!!!
by bitwelder on Tue 25th Sep 2012 07:45 in reply to "RE: Fascism returns!!!"
bitwelder Member since:
2010-04-27


Having said that, I am NOT defending EU if this horrendous piece of legislation ever sees the light of day. But before it comes in effect it is one more "attempt" that should be blocked by our representatives.

As in ACTA case, these kind of 'secret plans' always comes from inside European Commission. Typically when they have to face European Parliament (i.e. direct representatives of EU people) things starts to get ugly, as all questions are asked and all stones are turned (which is the reason those plans are kept secret until last minute... or later).

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[3]: Fascism returns!!!
by HangLoose on Tue 25th Sep 2012 09:08 in reply to "RE[2]: Fascism returns!!!"
HangLoose Member since:
2007-09-03

YES.

And I fear that we will see attempts to disguise legislation as something that no normal person would oppose: such as shoe horning a Trojan ammendment in something valid like child pornography laws. What kind of politician would want to be associated with blocking such a thing.

Good thing pirate parties are fighting big money.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Fascism returns!!!
by mistersoft on Tue 25th Sep 2012 15:19 in reply to "RE: Fascism returns!!!"
mistersoft Member since:
2011-01-05

Perfect response!
I think we all totally knew The Trapper was being ironic.
but perfect response anyway.

--To be honest, from my point of view I wish that so knowingly, so willfully even undermining our supposedly democratic processes ought to be a criminal offence!--

"incitement to bypass current legislature" or something. the people behind this ought to face such charges, t'were it possible. "IMHO"

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Fascism returns!!!
by zima on Mon 1st Oct 2012 22:59 in reply to "RE[2]: Fascism returns!!!"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

What you propose could also be easily abused, I think... (look up Liberum veto and what it ultimately brought; similar problems, in both cases virtually no changes could be made if somebody doesn't wish them)

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Fascism returns!!!
by ilovebeer on Wed 26th Sep 2012 16:44 in reply to "RE: Fascism returns!!!"
ilovebeer Member since:
2011-08-08

While in EU this sort of things need to be done behind close doors not to anger the population, in USA everything is done in name of "freedom" and "liberty". Openly! And everyone applauds it because peopled dont want to be like the "socialists from Europe".

Some of them:
-NSA Call database and warrant less surveillance
-USA Patriot/Homeland Security/etc Act
-Indiscriminate use of NSLs
-Plus the good old MPAA/RIAA/etc lobbying in congress.

So basically you don't know anything about the American public. I don't think you could have wrote that any more backwards.

Reply Parent Score: 1