Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 12th Dec 2012 23:18 UTC
Talk, Rumors, X Versus Y "Sources familiar with the ongoing negotiations between Apple and Microsoft tell AllThingsD that the companies are at loggerheads not over the 30 percent commission Apple asks of storage upgrade sales made through SkyDrive, but over applying that same commission to Office 365 subscriptions sold through Microsoft Office for iOS, which is expected to launch sometime next year." iOS could end up being the only mobile platform without Office.
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RE[4]: So?
by ricegf on Fri 14th Dec 2012 12:19 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: So?"
ricegf
Member since:
2007-04-25

Ah, semantics. Apple ran ads arguing that a Personal Computer must run Windows, and a Mac was a different product altogether. Agree?

Don't look now, but people are doing many of the same types of computing on mobile devices as on desktops and laptops - communications, reading, banking, planning, working, playing. You know, personal computing.

And the operating systems are converging - OS/X is becoming more like iOS (I hear), I run Android apps on my Linux desktop (precisely the same kernel, btw), and Windows 8 pretends to be the same on both (don't look at that processor behind the curtain!).

More importantly, people are increasingly choosing to buy mobile devices instead of Wintel PCs to do their personal computing. Not everybody, of course - geeks especially will always want maximum power on at least one device - but the bulk of the market has clearly switched, and that's where vendors are innovating now because that's where the market is growing.

Same use cases + same buyers + converging operating systems = same effective market.

I don't see much point in pretending that a 103 keyboard is required to call a device a "personal computer". The most practical definition of a "personal computer" IMHO is a device on which computing for one person at a time takes place - phone, tablet, laptop, desktop, workstation, whatever. This is similar to how cars, trucks, motorcycles, and a few others are all personal transportation, I guess.

But it's semantics, so we could argue in circles all night. *shrugs*

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[5]: So?
by henderson101 on Mon 17th Dec 2012 11:14 in reply to "RE[4]: So?"
henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

Ah, semantics. Apple ran ads arguing that a Personal Computer must run Windows, and a Mac was a different product altogether. Agree?


Not really. A Mac is a PC.. *head explodes* This is a bit like the 1970's "Pepsi challenge" in the UK. At the time, Pepsi were not allowed to name another brand in their advertising, so they used the term "another leading cola". Equally, what would one call a consumer Windows PC if one wanted to remove the word "Windows(tm)" and were trying to be "generic"? Errr... PC. What would one Call a Macintosh branded personal computer if one wanted a similar level of simplicity? Mac. This is the common parlance, after all. No matter what the factual truth of the definitions are.

And the operating systems are converging - OS/X is becoming more like iOS (I hear),


OS X. It helps if you know what you are talking about. And, no, it's a long way away from iOS.

I run Android apps on my Linux desktop (precisely the same kernel, btw),


Arm or IA32/x64? With ARM we might believe you... with Intel you might run "some" apps with major caveats due to the native extensions being in ARM. But then again, Dalvik is a VM - running the majority of Android apps that make no use of the NDK is pretty straight forward, so long as you've ported the runtime. This is no different to running any Windows app compiler with MS.Net under Mono on Linux or Mac OS X.

and Windows 8 pretends to be the same on both (don't look at that processor behind the curtain!).


Both of what? Processor? No it doesn't. It does nothing more than LINUX does when you run a PowerPC distro, or BeOS did on both PowerPC and Intel or Android does on ARM, MIPS or Intel. You seem to have not gleaned the simple idea that one OS can run on different platforms quite happily. As an example, I used BeOS on PowerPC then Intel... I didn't think the Intel port was "pretending to be BeOS" because it couldn't run PowerPC apps. I also used Openstep on Intel hardware, but I didn't go around thinking that the 68000 or RISC based versions (SPARK/HP and fabled PowerPC) were imitations or pretending to be anything more than fully functioning ports. You comments seem pretty naive.

More importantly, people are increasingly choosing to buy mobile devices instead of Wintel PCs to do their personal computing.


Desktop PC's are struggling, but tablets have still got a long way to go before the oust Laptops. And the most popular Tablet I see commuting in the London every day is the iPad (iPad 1's, and the newer shape that could be a 2, 3, or 4 - not seen a mini yet.) I see as few Android tablets as to make them seem extremely niche and I have seem maybe 1 Blackberry Playbook and zero surface so far. I see more eBook readers, such as Kindles, than anything else though.

But it's semantics, so we could argue in circles all night. *shrugs*


You can argue in circles, but the circles seem a bit wonky from where I'm standing.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: So?
by ricegf on Mon 17th Dec 2012 12:00 in reply to "RE[5]: So?"
ricegf Member since:
2007-04-25

"Ah, semantics. Apple ran ads arguing that a Personal Computer must run Windows, and a Mac was a different product altogether. Agree?


Not really. A Mac is a PC.
"

Um, that was a rhetorical question in response to "a samrtphone (sic) isn't a personal computer!" Hence, "ah, semantics". I'm not really interest in debating such terminology!

"And the operating systems are converging - OS/X is becoming more like iOS (I hear),


OS X. It helps if you know what you are talking about. And, no, it's a long way away from iOS.
"

It helps to read what Apple CEO Tim Cook actually says before insulting me. "We see that people are in love with a lot of apps and functionality [on the iPhone]. Anywhere where that makes sense, we are going to move that over to Mac." The term commonly used in the media for Apple's strategy to port OS concepts from iOS is "convergence", hence "I hear".

"I run Android apps on my Linux desktop (precisely the same kernel, btw),


Arm or IA32/x64? With ARM we might believe you...
"

x64. Again, google "run android apps under linux". Dalvik is a VM, and many Android apps are either pure Dalvik or are open source so that the native parts can be easily ported. Don't care if you choose to believe me or not, reality is reality.

"More importantly, people are increasingly choosing to buy mobile devices instead of Wintel PCs to do their personal computing.


Desktop PC's are struggling, but tablets have still got a long way to go before the oust Laptops.
"

I didn't say tablets have ousted laptops.

I see as few Android tablets as to make them seem extremely niche


And you are really going to argue that your experience on a single commute in England is more valid than global market research? Really?

And this was why I shrugged...

Reply Parent Score: 2