Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 4th Mar 2013 18:26 UTC
Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu "Canonical has today publicly confirmed that they are working on a new cross-platform displayer server for Ubuntu. Called 'Mir', the X Window Server replacement is tasked with 'enabling development of the next generation Unity'. Which, in yet another about-turn, is to be rebuilt in Qt/QML." It'll be used for all Ubuntu variants (phone, tablet, desktop), and the first version will be released come May.
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RE[3]: NIH Syndrome!
by shmerl on Mon 4th Mar 2013 20:27 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: NIH Syndrome!"
shmerl
Member since:
2010-06-08

I'm personally not interested in SurfaceFlinger in this context, since it has hard dependency on bionic.

Wayland and Mir have no adoption yet, but if they will rely on incompatible drivers, it will create totally unnecessary and very sick competition for drivers including on the desktop, since Canonical stated they plan to switch to Mir everywhere (desktop and mobile).

The sickness of this is well demonstrated by Android already.

Games developers will just shrug and say that Linux is way to messy to support, or they'll say they only support Mir (and not Wayland) and so on. Either way it sounds pretty unpleasant.

Edited 2013-03-04 20:31 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[4]: NIH Syndrome!
by Nelson on Mon 4th Mar 2013 20:43 in reply to "RE[3]: NIH Syndrome!"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

I'm personally not interested in SurfaceFlinger in this context, since it has hard dependency on bionic.


I think that's silly. It is likely less work to adopt SF (or Mir) to use a full libc imp. than to flesh out Wayland.


Wayland and Mir have no adoption yet, but if they will rely on incompatible drivers, it will create totally unnecessary and very sick competition for drivers including on the desktop, since Canonical stated they plan to switch to Mir everywhere (desktop and mobile).


Mir standardizes around the way Android drivers interact with SF, if Mir becomes commonplace(and not Wayland), then vanilla Linux would reap these benefits and it would increase the accessibility of these drivers to all screens using Linux.


The sickness of this is well demonstrated by Android already.

Games developers will just shrug and say that Linux is way to messy to support, or they'll say they only support Mir (and not Wayland) and so on. Either way it sounds pretty unpleasant.


There's two ways to deal with this: Get rid of Android (Good luck) or standardize around Android. Mir chose the latter.


Games developers will just shrug and say that Linux is way to messy to support, or they'll say they only support Mir (and not Wayland) and so on. Either way it sounds pretty unpleasant.


Game developers should be an abstraction above SF/Mir at all times. I cannot think of a single instance where a game developer will need to interact with the compositing core of the OS. There's a serious issue if this is the case.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[5]: NIH Syndrome!
by shmerl on Mon 4th Mar 2013 20:48 in reply to "RE[4]: NIH Syndrome!"
shmerl Member since:
2010-06-08

That's the point - will their abstraction work on Wayland? Or they'll say "game for Mir only"?

This can work out better if:

1. Drivers will be shared (i.e. same drivers will enable Wayland and Mir) - so no stupid competition for drivers there.
2. Wayland will have a Mir plugin, and vice versa allowing programs designed for either one to run on another seamlessly and with insignificant overhead.

If that would be the case - things can turn out good. If these issues will be ignored - things will turn into a horrible mess.

Edited 2013-03-04 20:49 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[4]: NIH Syndrome!
by Soulbender on Tue 5th Mar 2013 04:22 in reply to "RE[3]: NIH Syndrome!"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

It's called competition. Deal with it.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: NIH Syndrome!
by Soulbender on Tue 5th Mar 2013 04:27 in reply to "RE[3]: NIH Syndrome!"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

it will create totally unnecessary and very sick competition for drivers including on the desktop


Lets not overstate this problem. The majority of the code in the driver will be the same regardless if it runs on mir, wayland or X. The only thing different will be the part that integrates with the video system.
If this is a major obstacle for the driver developers, well, wtf are they doing writing drivers?

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[5]: NIH Syndrome!
by shmerl on Tue 5th Mar 2013 04:33 in reply to "RE[4]: NIH Syndrome!"
shmerl Member since:
2010-06-08

Time will tell if that will be true. Android created sick drivers fragmentation precisely because they didn't care about the community. Canonical doesn't seem to care much either.

Reply Parent Score: 2