Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 12th Apr 2013 18:44 UTC
Google "Beneath the sheen of do-gooder ideology, FairSearch can be most charitably described as a Google watchdog. It seeks to fan the flames of disapproval where they've started organically, originate them where they haven't, and generally disseminate negativity toward the Google brand. Think of it as a PR firm working to destroy rather than create goodwill." To make matters worse, FairSearch' work isn't even very good.
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Mixed feelings about this
by WorknMan on Fri 12th Apr 2013 21:34 UTC
WorknMan
Member since:
2005-11-13

On one hand, Google is getting way too big. They practically own the web already, have a sizable chunk of the smartphone market, and are now laying down fiber to become their own ISP. So I think people have a good reason to be weary. I know a lot of people look at Google as 'the good guys', but I think that's extremely short-sighted. They are a publicly traded corporation, which means they're going to screw you over as soon as it serves their bottom line.

On the other hand, it gives me great joy to see MS crying foul. MS have been such dicks for so long, the company deserves every bit of bad karma that it gets. And I think the Fairsearch group would be better off without them, because MS being a part of this group only serves as a distraction. It's kind of like having a pedophile as part of a coalition to fight child sex abuse.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Mixed feelings about this
by BluenoseJake on Fri 12th Apr 2013 22:42 in reply to "Mixed feelings about this"
BluenoseJake Member since:
2005-08-11

It's kind of like having a pedophile as part of a coalition to fight child sex abuse.


No, I don't think it's like that at all.

Reply Parent Score: 2

indieinvader Member since:
2009-08-11

How is it not? Its a practical monopoly speaking out against a practical monopoly.

Reply Parent Score: 4

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

While the analogy is rather tasteless it's still pretty spot on.

Reply Parent Score: 8

RE: Mixed feelings about this
by cipri on Fri 12th Apr 2013 23:04 in reply to "Mixed feelings about this"
cipri Member since:
2007-02-15

Related to google fibre:
you noticed that you can get google fibre for free (just some little connection costs) and forever (as long as it exists). And even the bandwith of the free version is not that slow. In a lot of countries for that bandwith you pay a lot of money every month.
Nobody is forcing you do be a client of google.
There others too that offer searching services, others who offer a replacement of google maps, g+, youtube,... the list is very long.

A tone of opensource projects are sponsored by google, that's why a lot of commercial products, became more cheap or even free.
Try to imagine how it was in the era before google, when you had to pay a lot for even simple software of services, or you had to pirate. Now, with the help of google, we have a quite good open source community, that offers a lot of operating systems and software, which are sufficient for most of people.
Take a look for example how much money google invested in opensource projects, and how much patents they bought from others, and then released it under opensource licenses. Google chrome improved my web experience a lot, and the sync function works great, nomatter on what device I am (at home, or at a computer at school, etc..).
Why is google so successful? Because they are intelligent, because they have great developers, and it's fine if the market is dominated by the capable and intelligent once. And the others who are incapable of good innovations, come up with license claims for inventing the wheel and the fire.
Ask yourself why does CERN (fundamental research center) use the google hangouts?
Because they are not ideologic idiots.
Kasparov was for about 20 years the world champion in chess. Should somebody have told him: mr. kasparov, please slow down, so that others have a chance too, otherwise you have the monopole in chess.
What do you expect, that the stupid ones should have the same success as the intelligent ones?
What should google do? Send some of its developers to microsoft to help them finally make a good browser and search engine?
Microsoft has a lot of money. If they want, they can buy good developers too, and they also can make their OS (windows) open source and microsoft can start supporting open source projects, if they think that these "unfair methods" are making google successfull.

Edited 2013-04-12 23:06 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

Why is google so successful? Because they are intelligent, because they have great developers, and it's fine if the market is dominated by the capable and intelligent once.


Oh yeah, they're intelligent alright... intelligent enough to have people believing that all the free and open shit they're currently getting is going to stay free and open forever. But once their competition is eliminated and they have your balls in the vice grip, it's going to be a thousand hells worse than anything we saw with Microsoft and IE6/Office.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't use their products, just that we should be weary of them, and shouldn't blindly trust that they're always going to do the right thing. Why? Because they're a publicly-traded corporation. These entities ONLY do the right thing so long as it serves their bottom line.

Reply Parent Score: 1

GraphiteCube Member since:
2009-04-01

No comments on other points but...

"and microsoft can start supporting open source projects"

Actually they have CodePlex to host open source projects. Many Windows (Phone) development components are hosted over CodePlex (from Microsoft and 3rd party developers).

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: Mixed feelings about this
by TechGeek on Sat 13th Apr 2013 01:31 in reply to "Mixed feelings about this"
TechGeek Member since:
2006-01-14

On one hand, Google is getting way too big. They practically own the web already, have a sizable chunk of the smartphone market, and are now laying down fiber to become their own ISP. So I think people have a good reason to be weary. I know a lot of people look at Google as 'the good guys', but I think that's extremely short-sighted. They are a publicly traded corporation, which means they're going to screw you over as soon as it serves their bottom line.

On the other hand, it gives me great joy to see MS crying foul. MS have been such dicks for so long, the company deserves every bit of bad karma that it gets. And I think the Fairsearch group would be better off without them, because MS being a part of this group only serves as a distraction. It's kind of like having a pedophile as part of a coalition to fight child sex abuse.



I am going to disagree with everything you said about Google. Yes they are big. But success shouldn't be punished. Their grasp on the smartphone market is tenuous at best. They author a free phone OS. However, Samsung is making anew one. So the fight over that market certainly isn't over. As for being an ISP, they as a company have not been given any of the subsidies that the telecoms have, and are still doing a better job. They even provide free service to low income households. On top of all that they spend millions of dollars funding open source projects. Yes they are publicly traded. Yes they have made some mistakes. But they have done a thousand times better than anything Microsoft has done. They do not actively target their competition, opting to innovate in order to stay competitive. They are doing most things "right".

Fairsearch on the other hand exists solely to harass Google. The companies that make up Fairsearch are companies that can't compete or that Google won't let manipulate Google search to make a profit. If they had a legitimate grievance, the FTC would have done something about it during the investigation. Its guerrilla business tactics, thats all.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Mixed feelings about this
by ricegf on Sat 13th Apr 2013 23:57 in reply to "RE: Mixed feelings about this"
ricegf Member since:
2007-04-25

They author a free phone OS. However, Samsung is making anew one. So the fight over that market certainly isn't over.


More than that, Google put all of the changes to the Linux kernel to support Android smartphones into upstream, and Canonical is now using the Android kernel unmodified for Ubuntu Mobile. Talk about lowering barriers to market entry!

Kind of hard to imagine Microsoft putting all of their kernel mods into an open kernel so that other companies can make competing operating systems for their smartphones.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE: Mixed feelings about this
by Neolander on Sat 13th Apr 2013 06:40 in reply to "Mixed feelings about this"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

Regarding google fiber, I wouldn't worry too much if I were you. We've had a similar situation in France before, where the ISP ecosystem stagnated in suckiness until an obscure company aptly called Free decided to brutally shake things up. What happened is just that the other historical ISPs aligned themselves on Free's offerings, and everything ended up for the better in the end.

I am fairly skeptical of the economics dogma that fair competition can solve all problems, but sometimes it does work.

Edited 2013-04-13 06:44 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE: Mixed feelings about this
by bassbeast on Sat 13th Apr 2013 07:15 in reply to "Mixed feelings about this"
bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

Did you just compare MSFT to a pedo? Really? Me thinks you have a little too much anger for a company which at best would have been a fourth tier Adam West batman villain. heck you can look at every major success of that company and its ALWAYS preceded by "And then the other guy did something REALLY dumb" so if you want to blame somebody for the MSFT of old blame the retarded competition.

As for TFA? Personally I'm 110% behind fair search, why? Because I thought what the EU did with the "ballot box" concept should be applied across the board to all devices because it takes power out of the hands of the corps and puts it in the hands of the consumers where it belongs. lets face it we have ALL seen the power of bundling, and its even worse with mobile as its often a PITB if not some crazy hoop jumps to replace the bundled apps with alternatives. Heck does Apple even ALLOW other browsers on iOS?

That is why I think their idea of the ballot box should not only apply to MSFT but to everybody. Why shouldn't I be able to decide I want FF Mobile and Bing Maps on my Android? what if I want to run IE on my iPhone? It should be MY choice NOT theirs and anything that puts that choice back in the hands of the users is fine by me.

Reply Parent Score: 0

WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

Why shouldn't I be able to decide I want FF Mobile and Bing Maps on my Android?


Silly argument in the sense that, well, you can already do that.

Reply Parent Score: 9

andydread Member since:
2009-02-02

Did you just compare MSFT to a pedo? Really? Me thinks you have a little too much anger for a company which at best would have been a fourth tier Adam West batman villain. heck you can look at every major success of that company and its ALWAYS preceded by "And then the other guy did something REALLY dumb" so if you want to blame somebody for the MSFT of old blame the retarded competition.

As for TFA? Personally I'm 110% behind fair search, why? Because I thought what the EU did with the "ballot box" concept should be applied across the board to all devices because it takes power out of the hands of the corps and puts it in the hands of the consumers where it belongs. lets face it we have ALL seen the power of bundling, and its even worse with mobile as its often a PITB if not some crazy hoop jumps to replace the bundled apps with alternatives. Heck does Apple even ALLOW other browsers on iOS?

That is why I think their idea of the ballot box should not only apply to MSFT but to everybody. Why shouldn't I be able to decide I want FF Mobile and Bing Maps on my Android? what if I want to run IE on my iPhone? It should be MY choice NOT theirs and anything that puts that choice back in the hands of the users is fine by me.

So when I browse to google.com to do a search Google should provide me a ballot box to select what search i want to use? When I go to Gmail.com you are saying that Google should provide me a ballot box to select what email service I want? Please explain how that is good for consumers. pray tell.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Mixed feelings about this
by kwan_e on Sat 13th Apr 2013 09:47 in reply to "Mixed feelings about this"
kwan_e Member since:
2007-02-18

They practically own the web already,


I really fail to see how. They've made it work for them. Really well. But that's not the same as owning. They don't even own the web video media codec space.

And I think the Fairsearch group would be better off without them, because MS being a part of this group only serves as a distraction. It's kind of like having a pedophile as part of a coalition to fight child sex abuse.


It's more like having Joseph Ratzinger as head of the Catholic Church.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE: Mixed feelings about this
by JAlexoid on Sat 13th Apr 2013 22:56 in reply to "Mixed feelings about this"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

I know a lot of people look at Google as 'the good guys', but I think that's extremely short-sighted.


Short sighted? Not even close. Google is better than the alternative of a divided web, not Bing vs Google. By divided I mean, use Bing for searches within US, Baidu for Chinese searches, Yandex for Russian searches, search-engine-X for X country specific searches.
And letting Microsoft usurp the web is even worse than letting Google have it. Imagine Microsoft having Windows and a dominant Bing...

Choosing Google is a choice of lesser of two evils.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Mixed feelings about this
by zima on Fri 19th Apr 2013 20:38 in reply to "RE: Mixed feelings about this"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Choosing Google is a choice of lesser of two evils.

So... you kinda agree with him, it's not "Google as 'the good guys'", but "a choice of lesser of two evils" :p

Reply Parent Score: 2