Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 22nd Apr 2013 12:10 UTC
Windows The Verge confirms an earlier story by Mary Jo Foley. "Microsoft is preparing to revive the traditional Start button it killed with Windows 8. Sources familiar with Microsoft's plans have revealed to The Verge that Windows 8.1 will include the return of the Start button. We understand that the button will act as a method to simply access the Start Screen, and will not include the traditional Start Menu. The button is said to look near-identical to the existing Windows flag used in the Charm bar."
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RE[2]: Even if they do...
by UltraZelda64 on Mon 22nd Apr 2013 17:28 UTC in reply to "RE: Even if they do..."
UltraZelda64
Member since:
2006-12-05

If that's the case, then their "statistics" must have been gathered purely in-house by people who are getting paid by Microsoft's marketing division...

Clearly, now that Windows 8 is out in the wild, the "true" statistics are out.

Say, was it customers who wanted Metro to be foisted upon everyone too? I doubt it. Microsoft had the option to make both of these an option--but instead they decided to try to enforce them, against their resisting customers' wishes. As if removing a core part of Windows since 1995 was such a brilliant, infallable idea that would never be challenged!

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[3]: Even if they do...
by Nelson on Mon 22nd Apr 2013 18:46 in reply to "RE[2]: Even if they do..."
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

If that's the case, then their "statistics" must have been gathered purely in-house by people who are getting paid by Microsoft's marketing division...


The CEIP is a feedback mechanism built into Windows. It is not an in house statistic or done by Microsoft's marketing division. I'm unsure where you got this from.

I find it curious that you choose not to even address the relevant stats, not to challenge them on any basis other than some unsupported astro turfing claim which is characteristic of your lack of objectivity to the subject matter.


Clearly, now that Windows 8 is out in the wild, the "true" statistics are out.


What do you mean? Windows 8 has sold tens of millions of copies, and will continue to do so. Are you suggesting that Windows 8 isn't selling? I wasn't aware that serious people were making this claim.

This is whats most annoying, that people like you feel that they're entitled to their own facts. Do you have any idea what the scale of the Windows install base is?

Any way you slice it, Windows 8 has sold millions and millions of copies. App developers can and are becoming rich on the Windows Store.


Say, was it customers who wanted Metro to be foisted upon everyone too? I doubt it. Microsoft had the option to make both of these an option--but instead they decided to try to enforce them, against their resisting customers' wishes.


Metro is an option. If you don't like it you can just open the Desktop tile and run your classic apps. I don't understand how this is not choice.

A lack of choice would be removing the Desktop from Windows 8 completely.

Then, when Microsoft does a little to appease the annoying "power" (term used loosely here) users, people like you still manage to find a way to complain. Microsoft is damned if they do, damned if they don't.

The meme that Windows 8 isnt selling, or even more hilarious, that Windows 8 isnt selling because you cant access the start menu is so rooted in fantasy that it s almost astonishing.

There are no data points to back up this FUD. None. What so ever. People are not ditching Windows, the PC is decline for a variety of reasons that are a hell of a lot more complex than any theory you put forth.


As if removing a core part of Windows since 1995 was such a brilliant, infallable idea that would never be challenged!


What exactly has been removed from Windows? The start menu that everyone HATED when Vista/7 came out? You people are unreal.

The same people who now miss the start menu dearly and hold it up as an example of why Windows 8 is a failure are the same people who called it a piece of shit in prior releases.

This isn't about a genuine concern over a lack of a start menu, this is a missing feature than you can use as a stick to hit Microsoft with. Its so disingenuous.

Edited 2013-04-22 18:59 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[4]: Even if they do...
by WereCatf on Mon 22nd Apr 2013 19:06 in reply to "RE[3]: Even if they do..."
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

I find it curious that you choose not to even address the relevant stats, not to challenge them on any basis other than some unsupported astro turfing claim which is characteristic of your lack of objectivity to the subject matter.


Well, let me say something: Microsoft only gathered statistics on how often and when the Start-button was clicked, but not the reason for this. The most likely reason for someone clicking the button was to find one or another item there that's used rarely and therefore makes little sense to have visible at all times.

The problem? With the Start - screen you get either everything visible or you have to resort to search and, well, you may not always know how the item you're looking for is actually titled. The hierarchical menu of the old Start - menu made it easy to hide the items you didn't need often, but still if you needed something it was easy enough to check all the hierarchies available -- ie. Start-menu folders -- and dig in there to find the items in question you're looking for.

To give something of a more concrete example of what I mean would be e.g. a situation where you wish to adjust the settings of your USB-soundcard, but you can't remember what the utilities are named as or even how many different tools and utilities there are. So, you pop Start-menu open, open the full list of the items and look for the familiar name -- in my case, Creative -- and look under that.

Basically, Start-menu makes it easier to find stuff when you don't know what to search for. Search only works if your search query works.

Reply Parent Score: 3