Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 29th Apr 2013 07:08 UTC
Amiga & AROS "As computer games became more and more complex in the late 1980s, the days of the individual developer seemed to be waning. For a young teenager sitting alone in his room, the dream of creating the next great game by himself was getting out of reach. Yet out of this dilemma these same kids invented a unique method of self-expression, something that would end up enduring longer than Commodore itself. In fact, it still exists today. This was the demo scene."
Thread beginning with comment 560039
To view parent comment, click here.
To read all comments associated with this story, please click here.
RE[2]: Comment by MOS6510
by bassbeast on Mon 29th Apr 2013 11:56 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by MOS6510"
bassbeast
Member since:
2007-11-11

The difference is back then you could ask for and get the full blueprints and opcodes for the chips and moreover it wasn't that hard to make a mental map of what the chip was doing because their designs were MUCH simpler, heck I remember reading the guys at Commodore used to build a working mockup for their chips using a big breadboard and a LOT of point to point wiring.

Now compare that with the chip I'm typing on which isn't even state of the art yet has 6 cores, 3 levels of cache, if you look at a diagram of a modern chip layout its simply too complex for using the simple solutions anymore. Heck even ARM which used to be all about simplicity is up to 6 cores and 64 bits, so while its possible to use ASM today the odds that you will be able to cook up better than the compiler is pretty slim unless you are a superbrain.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[3]: Comment by MOS6510
by Doc Pain on Mon 29th Apr 2013 20:22 in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by MOS6510"
Doc Pain Member since:
2006-10-08

The difference is back then you could ask for and get the full blueprints and opcodes for the chips and moreover it wasn't that hard to make a mental map of what the chip was doing because their designs were MUCH simpler, heck I remember reading the guys at Commodore used to build a working mockup for their chips using a big breadboard and a LOT of point to point wiring.


Sometimes you didn't have to ask for them: This specific kind of documentation was standard in the handbook delivered with the computer. For example, my Amiga 500 manual contains all this "lowest level" stuff: circuit diagrams, pins, codes. Of course manuals also included basics of programming, making them much more "high level" educational material than what's distributed with today's PCs.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[4]: Comment by MOS6510
by bassbeast on Fri 3rd May 2013 05:05 in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by MOS6510"
bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

Heck I had a customer that wrote a simulation of a sat going across the sky for his dish selling company back in the day and he said when he ran into trouble with some of the code on the first draft with the Commodore 128 he was using he faxed the company...not only did he get one of the actual chip designers to answer his questions the guy sent him his personal number and they spent a good chunk of a weekend talking on the phone with the actual designer helping him write his simulation!

Back then the companies were smaller and made up of geeks so getting all the nitty gritty on the chip's logic and I/O was just easier to do then than now, and you sure as heck aren't gonna get one of the actual designers on the horn if your last name isn't Gates or Dell.

But while I appreciate some wanting to go back and play with the old gear again because of its simplicity give me a modern system any day of the week. Folks need to appreciate what we have now, that X6 CPU I paid just $105 for is so insanely powerful that if you would have told me at the time I was learning on my VIC 20 about it I would have laughed and told you nobody but a billionaire would ever end up with anything like that, we went from paying from several thousand a Mb of RAM to RAM being so cheap that even my little cheapo netbook has 8GB installed, and my first HDD was just 40MB yet cost nearly twice what the 3TB I have now cost.

We are truly in a golden age of computing so i hope everybody just takes a minute to look upon how incredible we have it now and how far we have come, because its pretty amazing.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by MOS6510
by moondevil on Tue 30th Apr 2013 06:27 in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by MOS6510"
moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

Yeah, I have been converting the backend of a toy compiler I have done in 1999 to use Assembly directly, instead of bytecodes that map into NASM macros.

The idea was to remove some code that I cannot publish, while removing a few dependencies in the process. The basic runtime was also rewritten in Assembly instead of C.

It might not make much sense, but it has been fun so far! ;)

Reply Parent Score: 2