Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 22nd May 2013 13:38 UTC
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless "The Verge has learned that HTC's Chief Product Officer, Kouji Kodera, left the company last week. Kodera was responsible for HTC's overall product strategy, which makes the departure especially notable on the heels of the global launch of the make-or-break One. It's not just Kodera. In the past three-odd months, HTC has lost a number of employees in rapid succession." I really hope HTC pulls it together.
Thread beginning with comment 562382
To read all comments associated with this story, please click here.
Comment by Nelson
by Nelson on Wed 22nd May 2013 14:06 UTC
Nelson
Member since:
2005-11-29

This just goes to show that no one OEM can grapple with Samsung's death grip on the Android ecosystem. There is almost no point in even calling it Android, Samsung has taken the entire cake.

This wouldn't be bad if it was a temporary trend, but Samsung has cleverly turned it into a self sustaining dominance. They have an enormous supply chain apparatus allowing for insourcing of components and non-commodity designs that just out class HTC.

HTC's One may be the better phone, but like the others who try, it doesn't really matter if you make the better product when market conditions are irreparably out of whack.

Samsung has a bigger foot print, more money, and more control over the components than their rivals. Pretty much everyone save for Apple is being absolutely crushed by Samsung.

HTC absolutely needs to change direction. They're in Nokia's situation in 2010. To me, the only alternative is to go with Windows Phone in a meaningful manner.

Nokia increased the size of the Windows Phone market, there's no reason why HTC couldn't do the same. There's no lack of will at Microsoft to give out money either, so they could likely negotiate themselves a healthy deal.

With their profits taking a jump off of a cliff, I'm guessing they could need the extra cash.

An HTC/Nokia duopoly on Windows Phone would be the most coherent and formidable answer to Samsung. Microsoft has the pockets to bank roll the assault, it just needs a nice foot soldier like HTC to make the One running Windows Phone.

Had Nokia decided to go the HTC route, they'd be long dead by now. In an ironic twist, Nokia is trending upwards and HTC is trending downwards. And some people still think Nokia made the wrong choice.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by Nelson
by moondevil on Wed 22nd May 2013 14:17 in reply to "Comment by Nelson"
moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

And some people still think Nokia made the wrong choice.


Speaking as former employee, it remains to be seen.

Reply Parent Score: 8

RE[2]: Comment by Nelson
by Nelson on Wed 22nd May 2013 14:54 in reply to "RE: Comment by Nelson"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

Yeah, it's by no means a sure thing in Nokia's case. But from we can see so far, there is limited indication that it is working.

They're not an overnight Samsung, but imho, Nokia is still in the conversation because they took Microsoft's olive branch.

Still it is absolutely fascinating that you worked at Nokia, so you likely have an interesting perspective.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Nelson
by PresentIt on Sun 26th May 2013 17:53 in reply to "RE: Comment by Nelson"
PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

"And some people still think Nokia made the wrong choice.

Speaking as former employee, it remains to be seen.
"

It has already been seen. Sales are still terrible. Behind the bragging about "increased sales" you basically have such poor sales it's laughable.

To put it this way: If you sell 1 phone one quarter and 2 the next you have 100% growth. But that doesn't help when your competitors increased their sales by millions.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Comment by Nelson
by windowshasyou on Wed 22nd May 2013 14:21 in reply to "Comment by Nelson"
windowshasyou Member since:
2011-05-14

Nice Microsoft sales pitch. Tell me, does Microsoft pay you by the comment or by the hour?

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Nelson
by Nelson on Wed 22nd May 2013 14:37 in reply to "RE: Comment by Nelson"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

Nice Microsoft sales pitch. Tell me, does Microsoft pay you by the comment or by the hour?


HTC posted a 37% YoY decrease versus a triple digit 180% YoY growth for Nokia Lumia sales.

Nokia outsold HTC in Q1 2013.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Comment by Nelson
by GraphiteCube on Wed 22nd May 2013 18:58 in reply to "RE: Comment by Nelson"
GraphiteCube Member since:
2009-04-01

So you can't respond properly but trolling and insulting the others?

I've seen many people say on the web that "Nokia must be better if they make Android devices". HTC make Android devices, but how do you explain the current situation of HTC?

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Nelson
by orfanum on Wed 22nd May 2013 19:55 in reply to "RE: Comment by Nelson"
orfanum Member since:
2006-06-02

If they have as much money to squander as he says they do, by the character, I am guessing.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Comment by Nelson
by MOS6510 on Wed 22nd May 2013 14:22 in reply to "Comment by Nelson"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

I think Nokia should have made their own OS, gone with WP or done both.

Certainly I agree Android was a no-go. It would reduce Nokia to just another phone maker, which would be sad for a company that was once synonymous with the mobile phone.

I'm sure Microsoft would welcome HTC and give them support if they're serious about WP phones.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Comment by Nelson
by Nelson on Wed 22nd May 2013 14:45 in reply to "RE: Comment by Nelson"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

I think Nokia should have made their own OS, gone with WP or done both.


So far, I think the Nokia strategy is bearing out nicely. It is exactly what every level headed person thought would happen -- a gradual but noticeable improvement in Nokia's financial position and in their Lumia shipments over time.

Windows Phone is certainly reaching the point where it has been fully bootstrapped and becomes self sustaining, but we're not all the way there yet.

I think for Nokia, Q2 and Q3 leading into Q4 will be pivotal for them. Its make or break now, they have their full portfolio with a competent OS. They just need to seal the deal.

I'm optimistic about Q2 given Nokia's own guidance last quarter, but Q3 remains a mystery. If they can keep momentum up into Q4 they'll do very well for themselves.


Certainly I agree Android was a no-go. It would reduce Nokia to just another phone maker, which would be sad for a company that was once synonymous with the mobile phone.


It's not just that, Nokia simply wouldn't have had the money to do the large scale launches they do (similar problem HTC now faces).


I'm sure Microsoft would welcome HTC and give them support if they're serious about WP phones.


They could even broker a deal which would see Nokia and HTC drop their litigation and move forward together against Android.

The combined volume of Nokia+HTC would be meaningful and provide a counterweight to Samsung and Apple.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Nelson
by Neolander on Thu 23rd May 2013 06:05 in reply to "RE: Comment by Nelson"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

I think Nokia should have made their own OS, gone with WP or done both.

Certainly I agree Android was a no-go. It would reduce Nokia to just another phone maker, which would be sad for a company that was once synonymous with the mobile phone.

I'm sure Microsoft would welcome HTC and give them support if they're serious about WP phones.

+1 Insightful for mentioning the third option of Nokia growing their own OS.

That one was also possible at some point, they only blew it by letting the Symbian team stagnate, let their code rot, and impose their tyranny upon other teams.

It's such a shame to leave so many of these impressive OS projects Nokia had being left to rot, in favor of the latest Microsoft mobile failure of all things... Though I can agree that Android (or iOS for that matter, if it was possible to license it) wouldn't have done much better.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: Comment by Nelson
by Deviate_X on Wed 22nd May 2013 16:19 in reply to "Comment by Nelson"
Deviate_X Member since:
2005-07-11

Windows Phone isn't really going to help HTC. Nokia owns Windows Phone entirely (something like 80% of the WP phones are Nokia) for a good reason, they have put the commitment and effort where it counts.

The ultimate reason for Samsung's domination now, is probably due to the same early efforts and commitments Samsung had with Android.

HTC option now is to simply stay a-float and wait for the market shift its focus...

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Comment by Nelson
by GraphiteCube on Wed 22nd May 2013 19:06 in reply to "RE: Comment by Nelson"
GraphiteCube Member since:
2009-04-01

Windows Phone isn't really going to help HTC. Nokia owns Windows Phone entirely (something like 80% of the WP phones are Nokia) for a good reason, they have put the commitment and effort where it counts.

The ultimate reason for Samsung's domination now, is probably due to the same early efforts and commitments Samsung had with Android.

HTC option now is to simply stay a-float and wait for the market shift its focus...

Nokia owns that large part of Windows Phone ecosystem because of their commitment. If you read the news about Windows Phone, I think 90% of the time you will find Nokia working on some exclusive apps on their products. Samsung and HTC do similar thing but not as frequent as Nokia does. I like HTC 8X but at the end I decided to go with Lumia 920, why? Because Nokia is willing to work and improve their products; Samsung/ HTC simply sell you the phone and do nothing. Even if Samsung/ HTC don't want to make exclusive apps on their own, why can't they sign deals with app makers to offer exclusive experiences on their phone?

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Comment by Nelson
by Fergy on Wed 22nd May 2013 17:38 in reply to "Comment by Nelson"
Fergy Member since:
2006-04-10

This just goes to show that no one OEM can grapple with Samsung's death grip on the Android ecosystem. There is almost no point in even calling it Android, Samsung has taken the entire cake.

It is still android and an app works on Samsung, HTC, LG etc.

This wouldn't be bad if it was a temporary trend, but Samsung has cleverly turned it into a self sustaining dominance. They have an enormous supply chain apparatus allowing for insourcing of components and non-commodity designs that just out class HTC.

If you mean Samsung outspends HTC on marketing you are right.

HTC's One may be the better phone, but like the others who try, it doesn't really matter if you make the better product when market conditions are irreparably out of whack.

Marketing

Samsung has a bigger foot print, more money, and more control over the components than their rivals. Pretty much everyone save for Apple is being absolutely crushed by Samsung.

Marketing

HTC absolutely needs to change direction. They're in Nokia's situation in 2010. To me, the only alternative is to go with Windows Phone in a meaningful manner.

HTC has their own OS, a huge software development team and had an iphone 2 years before the iphone? Ow you mean HTC has thrown away all their current phones and software and wait 3 years before they have windows phones!

Nokia increased the size of the Windows Phone market, there's no reason why HTC couldn't do the same. There's no lack of will at Microsoft to give out money either, so they could likely negotiate themselves a healthy deal.

Yes Nokia makes nice phones and even if they run a brand new unproven OS that has barely any apps they can grow windows phones marketshare. Of course it would have been really hard to get that low marketshare any lower.

With their profits taking a jump off of a cliff, I'm guessing they could need the extra cash.

And that would bring more money than selling Android AND windows phones?

An HTC/Nokia duopoly on Windows Phone would be the most coherent and formidable answer to Samsung. Microsoft has the pockets to bank roll the assault, it just needs a nice foot soldier like HTC to make the One running Windows Phone.

You already have Samsung/Nokia/HTC windows phones. The only thing different would be no sales from Android.

Had Nokia decided to go the HTC route, they'd be long dead by now. In an ironic twist, Nokia is trending upwards and HTC is trending downwards. And some people still think Nokia made the wrong choice.

You really think that if Nokia had kept all their symbian and linux phones and added android and windows phones that they would be _worse_ of?

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: Comment by Nelson
by tylerdurden on Wed 22nd May 2013 18:15 in reply to "Comment by Nelson"
tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

Yeah, it is clear that the best way to go against Samsung's products is using outdated HW platforms, running an OS with little traction overall in the smart phone market space... makes perfect sense.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Comment by Nelson
by Nelson on Wed 22nd May 2013 22:40 in reply to "RE: Comment by Nelson"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

Yeah, it is clear that the best way to go against Samsung's products is using outdated HW platforms, running an OS with little traction overall in the smart phone market space... makes perfect sense.


What's your alternative? Because thats the same platform that has kept Nokia alive and even brought them to profitability.

HTC is at the point where they need real solutions. One with a chance of working. How wouldn't quarterly cash infusions from Microsoft, matched marketing, and engineering resources not help HTC?

Nokia outsold HTC and is poised to go even further in Q2, so how is this something that isn't beneficial to HTC?

HTC could save itself and in turn a lot of jobs if does what would be hypothetically mutually beneficial for both parties. In my opinion.

The alternative is staying their current course, as cash strapped as they are. Try to compete on marketing, sourcing of components, hiring of talent, and all that's associated with a successful product launch all without any comparable help from Google.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Comment by Nelson
by dsmogor on Thu 23rd May 2013 07:47 in reply to "Comment by Nelson"
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

HTC has already released decent Windows phones. They posses hefty 23% of WP market and the duopoly you describe is a fact today. Does it help them in any way? No.
What else do you them doing? Dropping Android altogether and whatever revenue comes with it. Given amount of past investments such a massive write off would mean a sudden death for the company.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE: Comment by Nelson
by bert64 on Thu 23rd May 2013 08:54 in reply to "Comment by Nelson"
bert64 Member since:
2007-04-23

Nokia is a household name, and has been for many years... HTC is nowhere near as well known.

HTC already make devices running windows phone and they aren't selling very well either. They are doomed either way, a cheap clone of nokia or a cheap clone of samsung.

Reply Parent Score: 3