Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 1st Jul 2013 23:07 UTC
Mozilla & Gecko clones "Mozilla today announced that the regional launches of Firefox OS smartphones will begin soon. Deutsche Telekom and Telefonica will release the first Firefox OS devices, the ALCATEL ONE TOUCH Fire and the ZTE Open, soon. Individual partners will announce specifics about launches in each market soon." Lots of soons in there.
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RE[6]: I think it's exciting
by Nelson on Thu 4th Jul 2013 03:58 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: I think it's exciting"
Nelson
Member since:
2005-11-29

Which is why it is great that Dart is more than the language. More competent frameworks manage to provide powerful and fast static typing while still being able to interface with dynamic languages.

The DLR/CLR combination is an example of this, and how a unified byte code can enable more choice on the web.

I think inversely a crucial bottleneck for a lot of developers is the fact that JavaScript is a pain to work with. Prototype based OO is different, but not necessarily better from my POV.

It is a tragedy that we put up with what we put up with on the web in the name of ubiquity. Its mediocrity in my opinion. We're better than this, and there's no reason why a better solution can't be engineered.

Every pioneer has had to break compatibility at one point or another, if the web needs a disruption then the standard committees have work to do.

Reply Parent Score: 3

lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

JavaScript isn't a pain to work with, what most devs do is try to program JavaScript like Java/C# because it kinda looks a bit like it.

Once you appreciate the language and program it the right way, it isn't problematic.

I don't think you get it, nobody wants to write in Dart. Dart is Google's second attempt at making GWT, nobody wanted it the first time around.

Once you know what you are doing in JavaScript it actually kinda nice to code in. Why do you think Node.js has got so popular?

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[8]: I think it's exciting
by Nelson on Thu 4th Jul 2013 14:58 in reply to "RE[7]: I think it's exciting"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

JavaScript isn't a pain to work with, what most devs do is try to program JavaScript like Java/C# because it kinda looks a bit like it.


Oh come on, the lack of basic compile time semantic analysis is a huge draw back. Hard to debug typos can trip someone up in JavaScript. Did you mean to reference a property or create an entirely new one? Its ambiguous.

When dealing with complex application scale projects (Like Mozilla wants to enable) you quickly run up against a productivity wall.


Once you appreciate the language and program it the right way, it isn't problematic.


I held this view for a while. I figured I was too ignorant of the benefits so it only made the drawbacks seem more pronounced. After using it in practice, watching PluralSight courses on the subject matter, and acquainting myself with the paradigm I can't say I'm convinced.

Its novel, its different, maybe even cool, but its far from perfect and in my opinion does not justify the drawbacks.

Now, that doesn't preclude me from appreciating the fact that some people do like it which is why I'm in favor of a language agnostic web in which there is a standard byte code.


I don't think you get it, nobody wants to write in Dart. Dart is Google's second attempt at making GWT, nobody wanted it the first time around.


GWT was an abomination, but Dart is taking on that same problem space with a slightly different approach. While I do prefer the optional static typing in Dart, I am much more interested in a standard web bytecode format.


Once you know what you are doing in JavaScript it actually kinda nice to code in. Why do you think Node.js has got so popular?


Node.js got popular because it scales extremely well for a particular set of circumstances, and because it lowered barriers to entry to large scale service programming.

What's easier, understanding a .NET or Java SDK or using familiar skills? That was the draw of using JS as the basis for Node, but Node is much more than JS.

The entire eventing platform its built on top is what enables the magic, JS is just a language. Could've easily been anything else.

Reply Parent Score: 3