Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 11th Nov 2013 22:49 UTC
Games

Sony, June this year:

"PlayStation 4 won't impose any new restrictions on used games. This is a good thing," said Tretton, to huge applause from the audience in attendance. "When a gamer buys a PS4 disc, they have the rights to that copy of the game."

Sony's Software Usage Terms, updated today:

6.3. You must not lease, rent, sublicense, publish, modify, adapt, or translate any portion of the Software.

7.1. You must not resell either Disc-based Software or Software Downloads, unless expressly authorised by us and, if the publisher is another company, additionally by the publisher.

Liars. Similar language has been found on the boxes of previous PlayStation models, but that's hardly a comfort.

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Comment by chainq
by chainq on Mon 11th Nov 2013 23:25 UTC
chainq
Member since:
2009-06-09

I'm pretty sure such EULA is directly against the law in most EU countries. At least in Hungary (where I'm from), such EULA is a contract, but all contracts which go against the local law (which explicitly permits reselling of your own personal copy) are automatically invalid. So you can still sell the game you bought, despite what invalid lawyer brainfart the EULA contains.

Anyway, I have plenty of ideas what things we should do with Sony's lawyers and managers, despite it's against the law. But they don't care about that, so why should we? ;)

Reply Score: 10

RE: Comment by chainq
by WereCatf on Tue 12th Nov 2013 01:13 in reply to "Comment by chainq"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

I'm pretty sure such EULA is directly against the law in most EU countries.


I can vouch for at least Finland in that that such a rule is totally non-enforceable, Sony cannot forbid re-sale of items like that. The law rather clearly says that if it is sold like a shelf product it is a shelf product and all such items can be sold at the buyers' discretion, with or without permission from the manufacturer or place of purchase.

Reply Parent Score: 11

RE[2]: Comment by chainq
by aliquis on Tue 12th Nov 2013 06:34 in reply to "RE: Comment by chainq"
aliquis Member since:
2005-07-23

"I'm pretty sure such EULA is directly against the law in most EU countries.


I can vouch for at least Finland in that that such a rule is totally non-enforceable, Sony cannot forbid re-sale of items like that. The law rather clearly says that if it is sold like a shelf product it is a shelf product and all such items can be sold at the buyers' discretion, with or without permission from the manufacturer or place of purchase.
"What if the shelf product just hold a key which can only be used once and let you download a game?

I assume one can't enforce resell rights on Steam games? What about Steam games bought in a store?

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Comment by chainq
by weckart on Tue 12th Nov 2013 12:28 in reply to "RE: Comment by chainq"
weckart Member since:
2006-01-11

I am sure the EU has pronounced on this to that effect, however, the wording did state that it would not be unlawful if the vendor implemented DRM or some other mechanism to prevent reselling. In such a case, the purchaser would not be entitled to reverse engineer nor implement some other mechanism to defeat the software block on reselling for the purposes of reselling.

Local laws in Finland may be more stringent, however, and local laws are the only ones that count.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Comment by chainq
by bassbeast on Tue 12th Nov 2013 13:51 in reply to "RE: Comment by chainq"
bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

The problem Werecat is it really won't matter what laws Finland has as all Sony has to do is tie the game to your account. You see that way they can make the disc a completely worthless hunk of plastic because once you've played the game once that is it, it won't install anywhere else and thus will be worthless.

I would like to point out though that this means there is zero reason to choose console over PC now as the consoles now have ALL of the downsides of the PC, always online, DRM, no secondhand market, but NONE of the upsides like a thriving market with plenty of sellers, lower prices for games,backwards compatibility, upgradability and the ability to choose DRM free games.

So there really isn't a point in buying a console anymore, heck I don't know how prices are there but here in the states you can get a nice PC that will play pretty much any game out there for less than the Xbone and nearly as cheap as the now crippled PS4. What MSFT and Sony have done is make their consoles the worst choice by far, congrats guys.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Comment by chainq
by aliquis on Tue 12th Nov 2013 06:36 in reply to "Comment by chainq"
aliquis Member since:
2005-07-23

I'm pretty sure such EULA is directly against the law in most EU countries. At least in Hungary (where I'm from), such EULA is a contract, but all contracts which go against the local law (which explicitly permits reselling of your own personal copy) are automatically invalid. So you can still sell the game you bought, despite what invalid lawyer brainfart the EULA contains.

Anyway, I have plenty of ideas what things we should do with Sony's lawyers and managers, despite it's against the law. But they don't care about that, so why should we? ;)
Should be illegal / have some punishment to use such language anyway because it may affect what people dare to do / they may follow it regardless. I assume not the whole contract becomes invalid? Though that would had been something.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Comment by chainq
by protomank on Tue 12th Nov 2013 11:27 in reply to "Comment by chainq"
protomank Member since:
2006-08-03

Same for Brazil.
In court cases software is always considered a product, not a service, and can be sold at will. Unless you pay a montly amount, you can sell anything you buy in accordance with out "Consumer Protection Code" law.
Becuase of that, most software makers avoid going to justice in disputes, they do not want our higher courts (STJ and STF) to determine jurispridence on the matter.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE: Comment by chainq
by Carewolf on Tue 12th Nov 2013 13:51 in reply to "Comment by chainq"
Carewolf Member since:
2005-09-08

All EULA's are invalid in most countries. Only a small handfull has caved in to business pressure and legalized it. Even in the US, EULAs are only valid in a minority of states.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Comment by chainq
by kurkosdr on Tue 12th Nov 2013 18:09 in reply to "RE: Comment by chainq"
kurkosdr Member since:
2011-04-11

All EULA's are invalid in most countries. Only a small handfull has caved in to business pressure and legalized it. Even in the US, EULAs are only valid in a minority of states.

Maybe, but the real reason companies user EULAs is so that you can't sue them when they violate your customer rights with draconian DRM schemes. "Don't like our DRM? Too bad, you have accepted it when you agreed to the terms" And so that they can sue people making circumvention tools.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Comment by chainq
by CapEnt on Wed 13th Nov 2013 16:45 in reply to "Comment by chainq"
CapEnt Member since:
2005-12-18

Not that simple.

Your local law may allow you to resell the game. The problem is, i'm pretty sure that no single law in world cover the very simple case that your software may depend on infrastructure outside your home country. That said, the EULA is very valid on the home country that the company's servers is based.

So here we come: it is legal for you to resell the game on your country, but the company that must activate the game for it to run on your console can refuse to activate it.

It is a huge legal gray area that we are dealing here.

Reply Parent Score: 3