Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 17th Mar 2014 17:46 UTC
In the News

The big story over the weekend.

The exit of engineer Julie Ann Horvath from programming network GitHub has sparked yet another conversation concerning women in technology and startups. Her claims that she faced a sexist internal culture at GitHub came as a surprise to some, given her former defense of the startup and her internal work at the company to promote women in technology.

GitHub's response:

We know we have to take action and have begun a full investigation. While that’s ongoing, and effective immediately, the relevant founder has been put on leave, as has the referenced GitHub engineer. The founder’s wife discussed in the media reports has never had hiring or firing power at GitHub and will no longer be permitted in the office.

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Gender (in)difference
by Gestahlt on Mon 17th Mar 2014 20:37 UTC
Gestahlt
Member since:
2011-10-17

Well, i got also female co-workers and i kinda hate it.

I dont hate them but i hate it how they think they were treaded badly when they are treaded equal.

When business is on fire and we got loads of work to do and lot of people yell at each other and you can basically smell the nerdy testosterone (IT is still a more male populated sector). When a guy whines about his task the most likely answer he gets is: "Shut the fuck up and get your ass to work." and that works most of the time. No hard feelings. If the girls get yelled at or are ordered to perform their tasks (And they get it told nicely) they feel mistreaded and whine a whole week how evil everyone is.

Same when there is less work and we guys goof around. The girls are easily offended.. for NOTHING.

We do expect people to do their job professionally. I dont care if the task is done by a black disabled women with asian and russian parents as long the job is done in a timely and accurate way. Nor will i diffame her in any way because i simply dont give a shit.

But i do get the impression that many women think the job is a pony farm and being treaded equal (With the same respect and paycheck as an equal qualified male worker) means some guy holds the umbrella when shit hits the fan.

Of curse then again there are exceptions, but this is what i see daily for most part of it.

I wonder what horrors must a male worker in a womens domain suffer...

Reply Score: 2

RE: Gender (in)difference
by Thom_Holwerda on Mon 17th Mar 2014 20:40 in reply to "Gender (in)difference"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

I wonder what horrors must a male worker in a womens domain suffer...


None. I can know.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Gender (in)difference
by Gestahlt on Mon 17th Mar 2014 20:43 in reply to "RE: Gender (in)difference"
Gestahlt Member since:
2011-10-17

Hehe,

I also cant think of anyone. Because they are either gay and enjoy it or they dont give a shit (male nature).

Actually when my wife tells me about how they bitchfight at work.. it is stuff i would never ever care about or get worked up about.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: Gender (in)difference
by wibbit on Mon 17th Mar 2014 21:00 in reply to "Gender (in)difference"
wibbit Member since:
2006-03-22

When business is on fire and we got loads of work to do and lot of people yell at each other and you can basically smell the nerdy testosterone (IT is still a more male populated sector). When a guy whines about his task the most likely answer he gets is: "Shut the fuck up and get your ass to work." and that works most of the time. No hard feelings. If the girls get yelled at or are ordered to perform their tasks (And they get it told nicely) they feel mistreaded and whine a whole week how evil everyone is.


You're describing here possibly one of the least professional environments I've heard of.

Sounds like significant harassment and aggression which is entirely inappropriate in a work setting.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Gender (in)difference
by Gestahlt on Mon 17th Mar 2014 21:23 in reply to "RE: Gender (in)difference"
Gestahlt Member since:
2011-10-17

It was a bit exaggerated (not much tho) and peaks.

Well, we are working in the IT but we are not keyboard fairies. We are working with masses of hardware and it has a lot of a a warehouse flair (Fixing, Refurbishment, Customer requests). It would be more inappropiate in a more office like enviroment, but with us it is rather casual. Either you can go with such enviroments or you cant, either gender. I dont see issues with professionalism if you have to take out the whip from time to time. This is fairly common in small businesses. I heard this often.

I actually switched my job (because of better payment) and where i go is a complete different enviroment. The people are very distanced and rather calm about everything and it seems like everyone is a stranger to each other. Im really looking forward to see how this works out and where the stress will come from and how the conflicts arise and escalate.

At my old working place the most stress came from time pressure, and you got more pressure with the whip. It was always very reliving and also very celebrated when the job was done. I kinda liked it, because the team was working very well together and we managed to do often what was considered "impossible" by customers.
In Idle times, there was a lot of fun and i will miss my colleagues a lot. We might have yelled a lot, got yelled a lot but we trusted and relied on each other.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Gender (in)difference
by Ultimatebadass on Mon 17th Mar 2014 21:38 in reply to "RE: Gender (in)difference"
Ultimatebadass Member since:
2006-01-08

Not necessarily. It could have been just a well integrated team that dispensed with bullshit and people knew they could be "frank" with each-other. I think it's a good environment for small companies although it might be intimidating to an outsider at first.

All I know is I'd take that over a workplace with a PC komissar with a chip on a shoulder around every corner looking for things to get offended about (Adria Richards fiasco anyone?).

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: Gender (in)difference
by jgfenix on Mon 17th Mar 2014 21:32 in reply to "Gender (in)difference"
jgfenix Member since:
2006-05-25

Elementary school teachers. First comment.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/men-teach-elementary-school/story?id=1...

Reply Parent Score: 7

RE: Gender (in)difference
by shmerl on Mon 17th Mar 2014 21:42 in reply to "Gender (in)difference"
shmerl Member since:
2010-06-08

The work culture you described is simply horrible. It's not a norm by any means.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Gender (in)difference
by tylerdurden on Tue 18th Mar 2014 03:15 in reply to "Gender (in)difference"
tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

Nah, what you've described is just plain poor or utterly lacking professional conduct. Your anecdote only presents evidence that you work at a shitty place, if anything.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Gender (in)difference
by Alfman on Tue 18th Mar 2014 04:59 in reply to "Gender (in)difference"
Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

You know what, it's been several years since I've worked with a female colleague in IT. Even if there's discrimination, it just doesn't seem like discrimination could possibly account for such a large discrepancy. I don't think there are many females who are very interested in software engineering to begin with, for whatever reason. Frankly the bulk of the work needed by businesses is rather mundane even if you enjoy software engineering like I do.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Gender (in)difference
by Soulbender on Tue 18th Mar 2014 05:09 in reply to "Gender (in)difference"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

I wonder what horrors must a male worker in a womens domain suffer..


Extrapolating from your story...none. They'd be the kind of annoying, privileged minority that you hate so much.

Edited 2014-03-18 05:20 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: Gender (in)difference
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Tue 18th Mar 2014 06:13 in reply to "Gender (in)difference"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

I understand perfectly: You don't understand how women work and as a consequence you and your coworkers aren't getting the best production out of them. You mistakenly think that being equal in dignity means equal in treatment. It doesn't.

I'd tell you how to change your approach in general, but it really depends on the individuals you work with. I would suggest watching various media ( movies, tv shows, books, ect) that women enjoy that also depict strong female characters. You have to do your research in an egoless way, if you go into it with a strong bias that this is all BS you'd just waste your time.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: Gender (in)difference
by pmyteh on Tue 18th Mar 2014 17:09 in reply to "Gender (in)difference"
pmyteh Member since:
2014-02-03

I wonder what horrors must a male worker in a womens domain suffer...


I used to work as a temping secretary, so I've seen this from the other side. Interestingly, the women in whose domain I worked were almost exclusively friendly and welcoming (though intrigued as to how I'd ended up in the typing pool).

The men in the office, though, often found it difficult to know how to cope: I was "one of them", but working in the low-status female part of the building rather than being with the men in sales or financial advice or whatever. They were often awkward and (interestingly) in one place you could see them treating my female colleagues differently after a bit simply because I'd given the office gender roles a good stirring.

None of which is to say that it can't be hard the other way around, but my suspicion is that the male->female status hierarchy is the reason why women generally get sexism worse in the workplace (and why complaints about it can cause entitled outrage).

Reply Parent Score: 3