Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 3rd Apr 2014 19:40 UTC
Mozilla & Gecko clones

Mozilla prides itself on being held to a different standard and, this past week, we didn't live up to it. We know why people are hurt and angry, and they are right: it's because we haven't stayed true to ourselves.

We didn’t act like you'd expect Mozilla to act. We didn't move fast enough to engage with people once the controversy started. We're sorry. We must do better.

Brendan Eich has chosen to step down from his role as CEO. He's made this decision for Mozilla and our community.

The only sensible move.

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To me wether or not the CEO of Mozilla is a homophobe or not doesn't really matter. For every action there is a reaction and he basically stepped down because his past actions pissed off too many people that he was supposed to work with .

What I'm interested in is the general discussion here and elsewhere about gay rights (LGBT is such a clunky term...). The argument that having racist attitudes is morally equal to having homophobic attitudes is often countered with "oh, so you're saying just because I'm not agreeing with the gay lifestyle and just because I want to protect marriage from "the gays", I'm racist now! Yeah, right!". If this is your argument you either don't want to understand the point, or you're confused. The argument isn't that you're a racist, the argument is that the discrimination that homosexual people suffer from is analog to the way people of different color suffer from racism. If any CEO candidate donated to the KKK(which I'm using for effect), there clearly wouldn't be any discussion here as to why he shouldn't be the boss of a diverse group like Mozilla. What Eich did, is certainly not as bad as donating to the KKK, but it's a direct affront to homosexuals(and their friends) in the same way supporting the KKK is a direct affront to blacks(and their friends).
Then there's also the argument that you can't compare homophobia with racism, because you can't chose your color while you supposedly can change your sexual behaviour. This is wrong on so many levels, I don't even know where to begin. Many homosexuals don't even know what's up with them until their mid-twenties, sometimes it's even way later. That's because contrary to popular belief it's not all about what gives you sexual arousal, it's all about who you fall in love with. Heterosexuals can't chose which woman or man they fall in love with. It's the same with homosexuals. Many homosexuals aren't completely sure of their homosexuality before the first time that they infact do in love with someone of the same gender. And falling in love does have nothing to do with having sex. A homosexual can be in a heterosexual marriage, but the sex and everything else in the partnership will not be based on love, of course this is a depressing and deceptive situation (that can lead to betrayel, suicide and so forth). The difference between race and homosexuality is really only, that race can be seen in the mirror and homosexuality is only realised through a process of self-discovery. It's not possible to turn a heterosexual into a homosexual and it's not possible to do it vice versa. Through behaviour you can imitate heterosexuality in everything except love. But love is the whole point of a relationship, and supposedly the reason why people want to marry. So the issue basically boils down to this: Homosexuals want to be able to express their love and show their love openly by having the ability to get married, just like heterosexuals always did. Personally I doubt the whole state/church institutionalized marriage paradigm is of benefit to heterosexuals or homosexuals, but if one group of people consisting of people that didn't chose to be in that group (while I can understand that heterosexuals are generally glad that they aren't homosexuals, they are only "lucky", many/(most?/all?) homosexuals would choose to be heterosexual if that was an available option, the process of self-discovery is often inducing so much misery that homosexuals think about killing themselves and some will even do it, especially when they have to live in a repressive society) has a right for self-expression in one way, then the other group (also consisting of members who don't have the ability to choose which gender they fall in love with (falling in love with people of both genders, bisexuality, is also not a choice)) obviously shouldn't be denied the right the first group claims for itsself only because the first group is way stronger in numbers and therefore dominant.
There is also a lot of confusion created by the term "sexual orientation". When people discover that their sexuality isn't the norm, you can say they go through a phase of orientation, where they have to confront themselves with the fact that they are different and where they have to decide how to react to that fact. But the term suggests that one can use his own will to influence the "sexual orientation". It really should be called "sexual identity" or something else that reflects the fact that you ARE your sexuality in the same way people ARE black or ARE white.
Now I've to reveal myself to you. I'm gay. I might also be bisexual, but I'm confused about this myself. From when I was a child until I was 24 I was always sure about being heterosexual. Ever since I hit puberty I got boners from boobs and girl parts on TV and I also adored girls in reallife and my masturbating fantasies always centered around girls. I also had a porn addiction involving no gay porn (which means only straight porn) ever since I hit puberty. But I never fell in love with a girl the same way I fell in love with a guy at age 24. I didn't even know that such deep love (and I didn't even have a sexual relationship with that guy by the way!) was possible before that. I wanted to kill myself, because I hated the fact that my whole life was upside down from that moment. But I couldn't pull a switch in my head to turn of the love I experienced. Just like a black man can bleach his skin, but in reality he'd just be a black man with bleached skin. To this day my masturbatory fantasies center around women for the simple fact that this is a very old habit, which dies very slowly. But I can't imagine to have a relationship with a girl and to fall in love with a girl. I don't say it's impossible, which is why I think that I might be bisexual, but I'm not sure. Now I could deceive a girl and start a relationship, have sex with her, have children with her, but to base anything on deception is wrong in my opinion. The next time I fall in love with a man I might have a relationship with him and we might want to show our love to the world the same way that heterosexual couples can, by marrying. I'm not sure that I'd ever want to do that, because I think that marriage is a dangerous and stupid institution even for heterosexual couples. Divorce rates are high and the legal implications for the life after divorce are often very bad for one party. But as long as one group has the ability to make a mistake the other group should have the same right to make that mistake.
The argument that gays can have "civil unions" with basically the same rights as marriage is also bogus, because it's a form of segregation. Blacks weren't denied to use the bus under segregation, but they weren't allowed to sit infront. I also don't like "civil unions" for the practical reason, that under this system I couldn't propose to my lover with the words "do you want to marry me", I would have to use the idiotic "do you want to civil union me?" sentence instead (jokingly).
I don't believe that most of the people that argue against "gay marriage" hate gays or that they are bad people by the way. I think you're underestimating the seriousness of the situation. I think you have seen gay parades and the "gay pride" label and you therefore believe that gays can't have it that bad and that they should stop being in everybodies face. I have personally never been to a parade and I never wore a gay/LGBT label/sign anywhere on my clothes and I never displayed my "sexual identity" in any "in your face" way. In part because I'm a coward, and in part because I don't want to make a big issue out of something that shouldn't be a big issue in the year 2014, I just want to live my life and I've better things to do (dealing with problems etc.) just like every human. Did I feel discriminated against in my life? Yes. Do I feel the group of people called homosexuals which I seem to belong to is dealt a difficult and very challenging (which can break you down to the point where you will end your life prematurely) card in life? Yes

Reply Score: 2

MyNameIsNotImportant Member since:

(continued because of character limitation... it's not my character that is limited in this case, but the number of characters this blog allows you to put in a comment.) ^^

. Why? For example because the words "faggot" and "gay" are still used very frequently to put people down. And because ignorance about sexuality (I mean in general! there are still people that are ashamed about masturbation, and it's 2014! hilarious... sad...) is still wide spread. I've still not outed myself except to very few friends. I've not outed myself to my family. My dad told me as a 5 year old I should never come back home, if I turn out to be a "homo". I told him that I didn't even know what that was, because I really didn't at that age. Discrimination(in general! let's not pretend that racism is a non-issue, sometimes blacks dicriminate whites, we're all individuals, but most of us haven't truly learned that, I'm not even sure if I've successfully dropped my collectivist/group mentally myself) in society is widespread and happening at every layer. It's not only "gays" that have to learn to live with that but all minorities. Even majorities get discriminated from time to time. The cliche that the "heterosexual white man" has brought nothing but problems and wars to the world, and that "heterosexual white males" should therefore gradually be removed from all positions of power is just stupid. There are gay assholes, there are black assholes, there are white assholes, there are straight assholes, there are mentally challenged assholes, there are highly intelligent assholes, you get the picture.
In my opinion people should grow up and realize that a healthy society is all about respect for each other. If you have respect for your fellow beings, you're going to be nice to them. Be nice. Help people. Show respect. As "gay" :-) as this might sound, I really think this (being nice and respectful to every individual) is the forest that isn't seen for of the trees(differences).
I'm glad that in most western societies gays and blacks don't have to live in fear for their lifes all day, that's nice progress from earlier ages. I'm also glad that I don't have to live in Russia or African countries where being gay is a licence for being beat up or killed or discriminated in various ways.
I'd much rather deal with the remaining ignorance in western societies than being trapped in a completely ignorant and barbaric (towards gay people) society.

Reply Parent Score: 2

acobar Member since:

In my opinion people should grow up and realize that a healthy society is all about respect for each other.

This and a dose of forgiveness or, better yet, indulgence and compassion (because there is nothing wrong on be different of the majority or, at least, should not be).

Unluckily for you, and to many others that find themselves wishing things contrary to what is usually tagged as acceptable on society, the reality strikes really hard as most of us have a long list of prejudgment about many things hidden in our "soul" that will spring out when touched and we have no other option but deal with it.

That is why I usually ask for public debates about things, because this way we can move from your particular situation to the general one and try to show others how badly some decisions may impact others, the unnecessary suffering it brings, and my bet is that most will agree as pain is a kind of feeling almost everyone can understand. This way we may shift the tone of the debate from what is acceptable to what is the impact on someone life, what is easier to deal with, it is a step to handle a practical problem and, hopefully, with time, the tensions will wear off.

I really don't see a better way to handle these situations as we have groups of people with very different views of about everything and never saw a case where purely escalating the tensions resulted on gain to society. Bridges should be keep on place.

I know it is going to be a cliché, but I had a co-worker that experienced the same kind of trouble you have with your father. On his case, it didn't end well as his father stopped to talk and refused to welcome him home. I heard different outcomes from similar cases but what I found fantastic on his case was his observation about the situation. He said, more less: "My dad was always a very nice, educated, participant and listener guy. He played with me when I was young, helped on my student duties and took care of my needs. His is also a very religious guy, that seriously think we are not going to meet on paradise, he can not understand my option. Should I stop loving him because we disagree about sexual orientation and its consequences? No way, he is, overall, a better guy than 99.99% of all human beings, I will love him to the day I die and hope that, someday, he will forgive me as much as I forgive him for all the pain we are causing to each other".

I know it is hypocrisy but, were I you and had you been lucky to have a nice dad like this guy (and myself) have, I would not talk about sexual orientation. Your father will know anyway, I think, but you both will, hopefully, have the opportunity to enjoy and share the love you have to each other.

Wish you, and all imperfect but overall good humans, a life full of happiness.

Reply Parent Score: 2

jal_ Member since:

+1 Thanks for sharing.

Reply Parent Score: 2