Linked by jessesmith on Fri 28th Nov 2014 00:09 UTC
Debian and its clones

The Debian fork website, put together by the Veteran Unix Admins (VUA) group, has annouced the VUA has decided to fork the popular Debian GNU/Linux distribution. The VUA is critical of Debian's decision to adopt systemd as the distribution's default init software and to allow software packaged for Debian to depend directly on systemd. The VUA plans to create a fork of Debian using SysV Init as the default init software and is asking for donations to support the endevor.

The default init system in the next Debian v8 "Jessie" release will be systemd, bringing along a deep web of dependencies. We need to individuate those dependencies, clean them from all packages affected and provide an alternative repository where to get them. The stability of our fork is the main priority in this phase.

There has been a lot of debate over systemd in the Debian community in the past few months and it will be interesting to see if this non-systemd fork of Debian gains support.

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We've seen this game before
by Auzy on Fri 28th Nov 2014 07:13 UTC
Auzy
Member since:
2008-01-20

Honestly, those of us who were old enough to use Linux since Xfree86 and devFS, KDE3 and eventually Xorg have already played this game before.

It happens every time a new technology comes out. Its always a case of a few people who have no real contributions to open source projects making a lot of noise, hissing and whining and trying to fork.

In practice all the real developers adopt the new technologies because they recognise the benefits (and whilst there might be minor issues, realise the problems are easily fixable).

The reality is, every time I've tried to find infomation about the main "developers" behind the anti-SystemD movement, I've never actually found any patches. The last guy who started a whole Anti-SystemD website had exactly 1 bug-report in his name..

Reply Score: 8

RE: We've seen this game before
by spikeb on Fri 28th Nov 2014 07:33 in reply to "We've seen this game before"
spikeb Member since:
2006-01-18

Honestly, those of us who were old enough to use Linux since Xfree86 and devFS, KDE3 and eventually Xorg have already played this game before.

It happens every time a new technology comes out. Its always a case of a few people who have no real contributions to open source projects making a lot of noise, hissing and whining and trying to fork.

In practice all the real developers adopt the new technologies because they recognise the benefits (and whilst there might be minor issues, realise the problems are easily fixable).

The reality is, every time I've tried to find infomation about the main "developers" behind the anti-SystemD movement, I've never actually found any patches. The last guy who started a whole Anti-SystemD website had exactly 1 bug-report in his name..


this is pretty much true. there's one exception - gnome-shell inspired like four forks, and all of them are still going strong.

Reply Parent Score: 4

Temcat Member since:
2005-10-18

What are the other two, besides MATE and Cinnamon?

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: We've seen this game before
by meme on Fri 28th Nov 2014 11:51 in reply to "We've seen this game before"
meme Member since:
2006-04-03

So true.

Remember, when linux distributions switched from BSD style init to SysV?

Or when Red Hat has led the switch from a.out+libc5 to elf+glibc2?

There were similar whiners, who got used to status quo and didn't want to move forward. There are similar whiners now, they are just able to make more noise.

However, the caravan moves on.

Reply Parent Score: 4

segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

The is a whole different ball game to any of those examples.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: We've seen this game before
by segedunum on Sat 29th Nov 2014 22:08 in reply to "We've seen this game before"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

In practice all the real developers adopt the new technologies because they recognise the benefits (and whilst there might be minor issues, realise the problems are easily fixable).

I've seen it before for a long time, and what ends up happening is that bad software gets accepted, gets used, a whole load of problems fall out of the woodwork and it then gets abandoned costing a whole load of time and effort. The problem with systemd is that if this happens, which it will if it gets widely adopted, it threatens the credibility of an open source operating system.

Reply Parent Score: 1

tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

Indeed. I have seen these dynamics in both open source projects, and commercial products.

Some people go out of their way to opinionate(sic) about specific issues, of which they have little to no actual understanding, passionately.

Reply Parent Score: 2

segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

Put simply, it's a lot like GTK. Lots of crap, bloodletting, "I'm right, you're wrong" arguments that Linus and the kernel developers have called Gnome and GTK developers out on, licensing arguments....and then we arrive at a point over a decade later where Qt is quite clearly the correct choice for developing GUIs.

Yes, we have seen all this before. A lot.

Reply Parent Score: 2

segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

Xfree86, Open Office, GCC....where are you now?

Reply Parent Score: 2